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Advice on film scanner
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:44 pm    Post subject: Advice on film scanner Reply with quote
Hello colleagues!

I've been offered an Olympus, ES-10 Film Scanner in mint condition, and I'd like to know if would be worth to get it. I've got around 3.000 shots in film to scan, so getting one would be nice.

Thanks in advance!

Jes.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/ES10/ES10A.HTM

I found above review, on samples seems good.

I am afraid it will be bit slow on parallel port, do you have SCSI port ?

How much cost ? Perhaps Epson V500 what I have , better choice even if slower.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi Jes!
Quote:
2400x1600 maximum resolution (3.84 megapixels)

I am not sure result will be better than a modern flat scanner


PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Use a below what Poilu and Orio figured out, it will be fastest and cheapest method on planet with good result.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks a lot colleagues!. The scanner is offered by 100€, not sure if it is the SCSI or parallel version, in any case I've got SCSI on all my computers.

Attila, thanks for recalling me the bellows way. I've just ordered a bellows with PK mount for the K10D, so I'll be on the road quite soon... And more cheap than the scanner.

Any recommendation for scanning with bellows?.

Thanks!.

Jes.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
poilu wrote:
Hi Jes!
Quote:
2400x1600 maximum resolution (3.84 megapixels)

I am not sure result will be better than a modern flat scanner


Poilu, this is without interpolation... According the article Attila pointed at,
article wrote:
Olympus markets the ES-10 as a "3.8 Megapixel" scanner, perhaps hoping to point out to people that this is much higher resolution than common digital cameras. In fact though, the 3.8 megapixel rating really understates the difference between the ES-10 and typical digital cameras: Digital cameras are generally rated based on the total number of pixels in their sensors, but the actual resolution is reduced by the "striping" of the sensor array to derive the red, green, and blue color information. Film scanners generally move a sensor array across the film plane, effectively putting red, green, and blue sensors behind every pixel of the scanned image. Thus, you really need to almost triple the pixels of a film scanner to arrive at the equivalent rating for a digital camera. In the case of the ES-10, this is almost true: The ES-10 actually uses two sensors -- one striped with red and blue color filters, the other being exclusively devoted to the green channel. The result is that you effectively have about 2x as many pixels as in an equivalently-rated digital camera. (If the translation hold as stated, this would equate to a "7.6 megapixel" digital camera!) As you'll see from our test images, the resolution of the ES-10 far eclipses any of the current generation of digital point & shoot cameras.

But I'm convinced on using bellows now, thanks!. Smile

Jes.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jes, remember that Orio and poilu have been using their full-frame 5D cameras. With my crop-sensor 400D on the Asahi bellows I haven't been able to find a way of scanning the whole frame. Moving the lens further from the slide increases the coverage but to cover the whole frame means there isn't enough adjustment on the bellows slide to focus the camera. A lens around 65mm FL seems to give the best in-focus coverage, but still with heavy cropping. I'm concerned you're going to be disappointed if you try it with the K10D.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
My guess is that with a 28mm lens one would have the necessary angle coverage on an APS-C camera.
The problem would be perhaps that 28mm lenses are often not as well corrected in the angles and for distortion as 50mm lenses. So one would need a really good 28mm lens (such as a Distagon 2.8/28 for instance) to digitalize film without obvious distortions.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
Jes, remember that Orio and poilu have been using their full-frame 5D cameras. With my crop-sensor 400D on the Asahi bellows I haven't been able to find a way of scanning the whole frame. Moving the lens further from the slide increases the coverage but to cover the whole frame means there isn't enough adjustment on the bellows slide to focus the camera. A lens around 65mm FL seems to give the best in-focus coverage, but still with heavy cropping. I'm concerned you're going to be disappointed if you try it with the K10D.


Thanks for pointing this, Peter... In the past I was shooting the diapos against a window glass with the 100mm lens. Not very performant but did the trick of "scanning" b&w negatives. But you're right, I forgot they use a FF camera... Maybe a scanner will still be a cheaper method Wink

Jes.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
My guess is that with a 28mm lens one would have the necessary angle coverage on an APS-C camera.
The problem would be perhaps that 28mm lenses are often not as well corrected in the angles and for distortion as 50mm lenses. So one would need a really good 28mm lens (such as a Distagon 2.8/28 for instance) to digitalize film without obvious distortions.


That's an opportunity for the Cosinon 28/2.8 to have some use. If not, I can try the Flexkto 35/2.8, maybe it's enough for this...
Thanks, Orio!.

Jes.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
My guess is that with a 28mm lens one would have the necessary angle coverage on an APS-C camera.

That seems logical, but it doesn't work Sad Try it with your 50D. As I said, 65mm gives the best possible result on my bellows, but not full coverage.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
perhaps hoping to point out to people that this is much higher resolution than common digital cameras

don't forget the review is 10 year old
I also believe that the resolution of this scanner is better than 10 years ago digital p&s


PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
poilu wrote:
Quote:
perhaps hoping to point out to people that this is much higher resolution than common digital cameras

don't forget the review is 10 year old
I also believe that the resolution of this scanner is better than 10 years ago digital p&s


You're right, Poilu...

An spanish colleague talks about a 58mm lens (helios 44M) as the best one for the job. Here is his setup, the text is in spanish Sad


http://www.manuelportillo.com/cont/articulos/macro/duplicacion_fuelle.html

Jes.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jes,
I have an Epson Perfection 2400 photo, it connect up via USB and so far I love the way it scans negs.
I believe Larry had a different version of this one too.

Being slightly aged I got it at a decent price though I had to get an adapter from a vendor.

Jim


PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
j.lukow wrote:
Jes,
I have an Epson Perfection 2400 photo, it connect up via USB and so far I love the way it scans negs.
I believe Larry had a different version of this one too.

Being slightly aged I got it at a decent price though I had to get an adapter from a vendor.

Jim


Yes, I had the 2450 Photo model, which is only a small step up from the 2400 (same output though). It was excellent for medium format, and good for 35mm. Based on the rock-bottom prices these are going for, I would recommend it.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi Jim and Larry,

Thanks a lot for your advice, I'll be looking for one of those.
How fast are them to scan a single negative?.

Jes.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've been able to find several Epson "photo" scanners, at reasonable prices, but it's unclear to me if they support 6x6 or 6x4.5 film...
Even the EPSON website is not clear for that.

The ones I've found are:

Epson Perfection 2480 Photo (40€)
Epson Perfection 3170 Photo (100€)
Epson Perfection V350 Photo (160€)
Epson Perfection V200 Photo (100€)

Jes.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jes,
You'd have to check up on it, but I would guess the 2480 is the equivelant model.

All I can speak about are 35mm/126 negatives - in professional mode the preview scan takes about 15 seconds (at most) and when I actually scan at 48 bit colour, and 360 DPI its about 30-45 seconds.

Since it will be a little while until I'm scanning 120 film (medium format) I'm not sure whether I'm going to look for a neg holder of appropriate size or use a home-made cardboard holder and center it on the lid light - which is about 6 cm wide.

It is my first "neg capable" scanner, but I love it. Its perfect for me and I like the software that comes with it. If there is a necessity of software that can adjust for the film brand (which this one can't do), I've heard other software supports this family of scanners.

Hope this helps,
Jim


PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
j.lukow wrote:


Hope this helps,
Jim


Thanks a lot, Jim. Yes it did!.

Jes.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jesito wrote:
I've been able to find several Epson "photo" scanners, at reasonable prices, but it's unclear to me if they support 6x6 or 6x4.5 film...
Even the EPSON website is not clear for that.

Jes, I have the V350 and it supports 35mm (both automatic feeder and slide holder), and medium format (with the holder). I only shoot 35mm so I haven't tried anything else. For large format, I think the backlight lamp is far too small, you'd have to scan it as medium format in several passes and then cut&paste the images to put the photo together.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
naplam wrote:
Jesito wrote:
I've been able to find several Epson "photo" scanners, at reasonable prices, but it's unclear to me if they support 6x6 or 6x4.5 film...
Even the EPSON website is not clear for that.

Jes, I have the V350 and it supports 35mm (both automatic feeder and slide holder), and medium format (with the holder). I only shoot 35mm so I haven't tried anything else. For large format, I think the backlight lamp is far too small, you'd have to scan it as medium format in several passes and then cut&paste the images to put the photo together.


Thanks for the info!.
Since I'm not going to shot large format, this might well be the choice...
I'm writing my Christmas letter to Santa...

Jes.
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