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Pentax K20D and K200D
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:14 pm    Post subject: Pentax K20D and K200D Reply with quote
http://www.steves-digicams.com/pr/pentax_01232008_k20-k200-lenses_pr.html

The K20D looks great Smile

Tom


PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
great thing they did is they made a k200 vertical grip.

its just sad that k110/100d are crippled for that matter

love the two new models

go pentax!


PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:47 am    Post subject: Pentax K20D / Pentax K200D Reply with quote
...and the reviews :

Pentax K20D
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2008_reviews/pentax_k20d.html
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/K20D/K20DA.HTM
http://www.popphoto.com/cameras/5112/camera-test-pentax-k20d.html
http://www.ephotozine.com/article/Pentax-K20D-DSLR
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Pentax_K20D/
http://www.trustedreviews.com/digital-cameras/review/2008/04/18/Pentax-K20D-digital-SLR/p1
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-cameras/pentax-k20d-body-only/4505-6501_7-32825568.html?tag=prod.txt.1
http://www.photoreview.com.au/reviews/digitalslr/pentax-k20d.aspx

Pentax K200D
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2008_reviews/pentax_k200d.html
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/K200D/K200DA.HTM
http://www.ephotozine.com/article/Pentax-K200D
http://www.popphoto.com/camera_review/pentax-k200d.html
http://www.trustedreviews.com/digital-cameras/review/2008/04/24/Pentax-K200d/p1
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-cameras/pentax-k200d-body-only/4505-6501_7-32900069.html
http://www.photoreview.com.au/Pentax/reviews/digitalslr/pentax-k200d.aspx


PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
How would you compare them against the Canon 40D and 450D?.


Best regards,
Jes.


PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Unfortunately I couldn't say. It seems that the pictures made with the 450D are at the same level as the ones made with its predecessors.
What I like about the 450D is its bigger viewfinder and its spot metering (vs. the older 400/350D).
Here (Romania) we have a pretty good offer (until 6th of june) at the official Pentax dealer ( http://focus94.ro/shop.php?cat=36 and others ) so you can buy a Pentax K200D (+kit lens) at the price of ~555 euros with two years warranty or a older Pentax K10D (+kit lens and same warranty conditions) at ~635 euros.
and Pentax K20D kit at 972 euros.
The K200D has the same AF sistem as the K100D/Super, same AA/R6 power source (but now is a vertical/battery grip available), wheather sealed body, shake reduction and sensor cleaning systems (some say its better than K100D/S), upper LCD screen, green button and RAW (like K10D/K20D), etc.etc.etc.....


PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jesito wrote:
How would you compare them against the Canon 40D and 450D?.


Best regards,
Jes.


I’m not so sure you can compare them? Doing so would be a fairly fruitless exercise both are great cameras.
IMO the 40D is Canon's best value DSLR to date, there has been a lot written about. I take note of the Luminous Landscape ‘Hands on’ assessment and dpreview test.
To date there is little real information and tests on the K20. I haven’t even seen one ‘In stock’ in the shops yet (UK).
What has been written claims it is better than the K10 so it must be great.
A choice of a new camera does depend on what you are looking for.
The K10 can outresolve the 40D so imagine how good the K20 ‘Could be’
Link to the detail about the Pentax out-resolving the Canon.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos40d/page26.asp
“There isn't a single camera on the market which gains so much by shooting RAW and using Adobe Camera RAW to convert its images than the K10D. The difference is night and day and indeed the K10D in this comparison trumps the EOS 40D for detail.’
There is also a good comparison of the Canon 40D and the 5D on Luminous landscape. You add all the bits together and get a very good and clear picture!
It is worth noting the Pentax isn’t a camera that will suit everybody. IMO it makes no allowance or concessions to beginners. There are no scene modes and it doesn’t even attempt to give its best or throw in any silly enhancements when shooting JPEG. I believe it expects those who want the best shoot RAW. It even deliberately meters well to the right which worries many. However it never blows highlights in RAW.
I’m yet to see the proper test of the K20 but I feel sure it will be very good. I wont be buying one for a least a year or so because I’m very happy with my K10, in fact I’m still very happy with my K100 as well.
Final word when shooting in RAW Noise on the K10 is very low. I put this down to the 22bit ADC which isn’t fitted to the K200.

The 450D is a different class. If you want to know the difference just hold one.


PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rob Leslie wrote:

Link to the detail about the Pentax out-resolving the Canon.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos40d/page26.asp


Hmm.... by reading the same test in a following page, however, this does not seem to be the case:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos40d/page28.asp

Measurable results:

Canon EOS 40D
Horizontal LPH 2100
Vertical LPH 1800

Pentax K10D
Horizontal LPH * 2000
Vertical LPH 1800

The two cameras seem to offer the same vertical resolution, while on horizontal resolution the 40D seems to have a slight edge, that becomes more significant when considering that at the max. resolution of 2000 lines the K10D displays Moiré (the asterisk)


PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Rob Leslie wrote:

Link to the detail about the Pentax out-resolving the Canon.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos40d/page26.asp


Hmm.... by reading the same test in a following page, however, this does not seem to be the case:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos40d/page28.asp

Measurable results:

Canon EOS 40D
Horizontal LPH 2100
Vertical LPH 1800

Pentax K10D
Horizontal LPH * 2000
Vertical LPH 1800

The two cameras seem to offer the same vertical resolution, while on horizontal resolution the 40D seems to have a slight edge, that becomes more significant when considering that at the max. resolution of 2000 lines the K10D displays Moiré (the asterisk)


Very true, if you are buying a camera to photograph test charts!

There can be no doubt about the real world pictures, they are there to be seen? And the write up clearly confirms it?
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos40d/page26.asp

Also the resolution test doesn't say if it was done in RAW or JPEG? As most normal tests are done in JPEG (For the average user) I assume they are JPEG. I and I know many others are only interested in RAW performance. So the result is meaningless. I don't buy a good camera to use it in 'Snapshot mode' (JPEG) I don't even use my PS in JPEG.

The problem with tests is they lower the level of testing to the expectatations of below average users and beginers. And very few even bother to look at RAW perfomance.
If you read all the Canon 40D Performance pages you can see it does very well, however all these tests are JPEG. To me they are useless. Only one page (Page26) checks out RAW.

As I pointed out the Pentax K10 and I suspect the K20 to be the same are not the best cameras for beginers or average users. The Canon with its scene modes better JPEG output and easy Canon default RAW software is a better choice.


PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rob Leslie wrote:

Very true, if you are buying a camera to photograph test charts!


Rob, I was only commenting your statement that that test would prove that the K10D outresolves the 40D. The numbers published in that test don't support this interpretation.

If you now think that that test is not meaningful, why comment on it as a source of information in the first place? I don't understand.

A test can not be regarded as reliable/acceptable in one page and unreliable/unacceptable in another.


PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Samples in Imaging-resources with Pentax K20D : http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/K20D/K20DA7.HTM
(some are made at ISO 6400)


PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
montecarlo wrote:
Samples in Imaging-resources with Pentax K20D : http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/K20D/K20DA7.HTM
(some are made at ISO 6400)


Dang this test is LONG! Shocked

I personally think that such huge testing on cameras is a bit useless.
I mean we are speaking of great quality cameras. WIll there be such a big difference, image quality wise, between K10D or 40D or K20D or XYZFGR?
I don't think so.
On the contrary I think that such tests - unwantedly - tell much more about the lens that is attached to the camera, than about the camera itself.

I think that users that buy a 1000 EUR approx. APS-C model from either Canon or Nikon or Pentax always land on safe ground.
One should mostly decide on what lenses he plans to use with the camera. In my opinion.
Everything else follows.

-


PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rob Leslie wrote:
Jesito wrote:
How would you compare them against the Canon 40D and 450D?.


Best regards,
Jes.


I’m not so sure you can compare them? Doing so would be a fairly fruitless exercise both are great cameras.
I....
The 450D is a different class. If you want to know the difference just hold one.


Sorry, I meant to compare the K20D against the 40D and the K200D against the 450D, that are similar cameras. And yes, I'm only interested in RAW, and Av and M modes... These are no PS cameras, no sense to have "scenes" but it does make sense to have liveview...

Jes.


PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Rob Leslie wrote:

Very true, if you are buying a camera to photograph test charts!


Rob, I was only commenting your statement that that test would prove that the K10D outresolves the 40D. The numbers published in that test don't support this interpretation.

If you now think that that test is not meaningful, why comment on it as a source of information in the first place? I don't understand.

A test can not be regarded as reliable/acceptable in one page and unreliable/unacceptable in another.


Sorry Orio I am missing your point.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos40d/page26.asp
“There isn't a single camera on the market which gains so much by shooting RAW and using Adobe Camera RAW to convert its images than the K10D. The difference is night and day and indeed the K10D in this comparison trumps the EOS 40D for detail which hints perhaps that Pentax are using a sensor with a lighter anti-alias filter

These are not my words'
I did write.
' The K10 can outresolve the 40D so imagine how good the K20 ‘Could be’ 'Link to the detail about the Pentax out-resolving the Canon.'
Yes you are right I am using that test to confirm that the K10D outresolves the 40D.
As I have never tested the K10 against the Canon 40D I can't confirm that the test is true or not. Can you? I see no reason to doubt it?

I would add that those images (Above Link) are well worth a good look at.

I am saying a test which shows how many pairs of black and white lines a camera or lens resolves is meaninless if it was shot in JPEG, unless the camera is a PS that can only shoot JPEG. Judging the quality of the output from a camera based on photos of black and white lines is also meaninless when one can see decent real photo examples. The only meaningfull test of a camera is how it performs at its best quality, not at a fraction of its best (JPEG)

So yes IMO a test can be regarded as reliable/acceptable on one page and unreliable/unacceptable on another. It all depends on who is reading the test and how they work.
I find all 'Test' results based on JPEG output as unreliable/unacceptable as I wrote I don't even use my PS in JPEG.
A test of resolution is meaninless if done in JPEG.
However I accept that a majority of users only shoot in JPEG or only use RAW default values. Tests have to be written for the majority.

As a source of information dpreview is one of the better review sites it does at least do one page of RAW test and gives some decent general information, but as a discriminating user I don't have to take any notice of all the information written to keep the very average user happy. As a whole their tests are not 'Meaninless' and I never said that. I repeat a test of resolution, detail etc is meaningless if shot in JPEG.

But I am very happy to withdraw my remark that a tester found that the Pentax K10 showed better detail than the Canon 40D when both camera were tested in RAW. I agree 'Detail' may not actually be resolution and such information is of no interest to anybody anyway.
As another poster has pointed out, there is so little in it these days and I have no reason or interest in defending or plugging Pentax. the information is there fo all to see and read.

I should also add that one doesn’t buy a camera just because it has a fraction more (Alleged) resolution than another. There are many other things to consider.

Again I am not knocking the Canon 40D. I will repeat again it is IMO the best (performance/price) DSLR they have made and at the moment one of the best performance/price DSLRs on the market.
I would not hesitate to buy one if I was looking to change.


PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't know, for me "outresolve" means only to fare better in a resolvance test and the resolvance test does not support your point.

The perception of detail that you refer to is related not only to resolvance but also to microcontrast and in this regards the Canon camera surely pays a tribute for its stronger AA filter, which reduces the microcontrast and thus also the perception of the detail.

These are two different approaches that Pentax and Canon take and I personally would probably prefer a Pentax approach in many cases with my photos, as it requires less software sharpening, which I don't really like.

However this is a different matter from resolvance.

Last edited by Orio on Fri May 30, 2008 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:

I personally think that such huge testing on cameras is a bit useless.
I mean we are speaking of great quality cameras. WIll there be such a big difference, image quality wise, between K10D or 40D or K20D or XYZFGR?
I don't think so.
On the contrary I think that such tests - unwantedly - tell much more about the lens that is attached to the camera, than about the camera itself.


I pretty agree with Orio. I saw real difference in cameras when you change sensor dimensions. My Olympus is a little bit more noisy than my Nikon D80, the D80 than the 5D and when I had the opportunity to work with a 22MP Hasselblad Digital Back for MF I understood why it costed about 20.000 euro.

Then we can be nitpicking about EVs ranges and lines per inches but the lenses there play a greater role than sensors.

Actually I'm more and more considering digital cameras like film. I love the Olympus 3/4 proportion for food shots, I'd love to have the 5D to finally use wide angles for what they were created. When I shot panorama I use 120 slide and the Pentacon Six with the Flek.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:52 pm    Post subject: Pentax K20D Reply with quote
And finally the dpreview's review for K20D http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxk20d/


PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks like an interesting camera!


PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I love my K20D to go along with my K100D. I've had the K100D for over a year and thought I'd upgrade to the K20D.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
and http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxk200d/


PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
if you want to compare them, just take them in your hands:
The K200 is much more solidly built than the Canon 450.
The K200 has a sealed body.
If that matters...

The K20 has some features that other's haven't like the fast shooting mode with reduced quality.

- and the Pentax' have built-in SR: SR For old manual focus lenses....

Resolution- and noise-wise the differences aren't that big.

What Canon has better:
Greater choice of AF-lenses (esp. zooms) - whereas Pentax is better with their small limited-primes-
and the Canon-AF-system is better: Faster and not as noisy.
BUT: You hardly hear about front-/back-focus problems with Pentax....


PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I bought a k20d a few days ago, and ill say one thing.

Once you hold it you never want to leave it.

I havent taken sample shots but i will.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
GIR wrote:
I bought a k20d a few days ago, and ill say one thing.
Once you hold it you never want to leave it.
I havent taken sample shots but i will.


Cool! Please show us something from your beautiful land.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have to find some decent MF lenses, im new to slr photography too.
At the moment i have a sigma 17- 70 lens.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have a lot of lenses for sale Wink
What do you need?


PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Any thing thats compatible.

AF or MF It dosent effect me I have to learn how to control apature.
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