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Schnauzer
Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 2155
Location: Maine, USA
Expire: 2012-03-08
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 Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject: Sony A900 Field Report |
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Schnauzer wrote:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/a900-nr.shtml
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bob955i
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 2495
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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bob955i wrote:
And still the old 5D holds it's own in some respects after three years.  |
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 10472
Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
| Quote: |
| The Sony specs also indicate a two step noise reduction system, one before a/d conversion and one after. This first step is not user controllable and I see very subtle smudging of fine detail which may be connected to this |
welcome point & shot quality
smudge that cannot be removed, coded in raw
I hope Canon will not make the same mistake
it will be a gift for all dslr using Sony sensor
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Richard_D
Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 2378
Location: Faversham Kent UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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Richard_D wrote:
| poilu wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The Sony specs also indicate a two step noise reduction system, one before a/d conversion and one after. This first step is not user controllable and I see very subtle smudging of fine detail which may be connected to this |
welcome point & shot quality
smudge that cannot be removed, coded in raw
I hope Canon will not make the same mistake
it will be a gift for all dslr using Sony sensor |
It 's odd they're capable of making great sensors (e.g. D300) but when they put them in their own cameras they can't get noise control quite right.
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The interesting bit:
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Other: Asahi Super Takumar 55 mm f2 (M42) ,Tamron 300mm f5.6 SP, Tamron 500mm f8 SP.
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 29545
Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Based on what I have read (I am no expert) handling of digital noise does not only depend on the sensor but also on the processor(s).
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 10472
Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
raw should be straight from the sensor
user should decide if and how to remove noise
Sony decide to remove noise before writing the raw
if you don't like the created smudge, no way to remove them
look the tree and grass on the Sony samples (with NR off )
this remind me the quality of my first point & shoot
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A G Photography
Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 1480
Location: Bologna - Italy
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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A G Photography wrote:
| poilu wrote: |
raw should be straight from the sensor
user should decide if and how to remove noise
Sony decide to remove noise before writing the raw
if you don't like the created smudge, no way to remove them
look the tree and grass on the Sony samples (with NR off )
this remind me the quality of my first point & shoot |
Be careful poilu, it's LL after all:
| Quote: |
| There is one ray of light however; if I turn off all sharpening and NR in both software suites, the files look equally 'bad'. |
This means that those examples came out from sharpening and noise reduction in the raw converter programs (ACR for Canon, proprietary one for Sony).
Another good reason why I find LL a pretty unreliable source of info in the net: using sharpening and noise reduction without use of masks and layers is precisely what a point and shoot would do.
I'd take a look at the 100% images in the DPreview review http://www.dpreview.com/previews/SonyDSLRA900/
About the pre recording NR this explains things a lot better than LL (strange eh?  )
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/AA900/AA900NR.HTM
For people not wanting to read it all basically they says that the NR applied before recording the RAW is the noise coming out from the sensor electronic signal itself.
Just like in many cameras you shot a black frame and it is then automatically subtracted from the final image (I think the Sigma has this system for high ISO or long exposure shots and for sure there are various programs and plugins that do the same process).
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Others: Chinon-Tomioka 55/1.4, Helios 28/2.8, Isco Iscotar 50/2.8, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Ludwig Meritar 50/2.9, Schacht Travegon 35/3.5, Schacht Travenon 135/4.5, Sekor 55/1.8, Sigma MF 28/2.8, S-Takumar, 28/3.5, S-Takumar 50/1.4, S-Takumar 55/1.8, S-Takumar 55/2, Steinheil Quinar 135/2.8, Steinheil Culminar 135/4.5, Vivitar 135/2.8, Voigtlander Ultron 50/1.8, Yashica Yashinon DX 50/1.4, Zuiko MC Auto-W 28/2.8
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lahnet
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 1164
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: |
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lahnet wrote:
I think attention shout be on the fact, that this "test" are made with a premodel.
Firmware update to A700, came out the same day Sony official presented A900. One of the new features was a possibility to turn NR completely off. Rumours are that Nikon has given advise, and the first test images shows that NR now gives results close to D300. Not that there was a problem before it is more the way A700 now handles NR.
I think/hope that the same feature "NR off" will be on A900, anyway I am looking forward to see the first real tests.
Edit: What is worse is that it is impossible to use M42 lenses on A program. Only on full manual program.
Anyway it is to expensive to me, maybe in about 2 years when it hits second hand marked.
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montecarlo
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 1865
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:08 am Post subject: |
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montecarlo wrote:
| lahnet wrote: |
I think attention shout be on the fact, that this "test" are made with a premodel.
Firmware update to A700, came out the same day Sony official presented A900. One of the new features was a possibility to turn NR completely off. Rumours are that Nikon has given advise, and the first test images shows that NR now gives results close to D300. Not that there was a problem before it is more the way A700 now handles NR.
I think/hope that the same feature "NR off" will be on A900, anyway I am looking forward to see the first real tests.
Edit: What is worse is that it is impossible to use M42 lenses on A program. Only on full manual program.
Anyway it is to expensive to me, maybe in about 2 years when it hits second hand marked. |
Maybe only for the moment. If the A900 will be success we'll see on ebay Minolta A - M42 adapters with chip on it which might make available the Av mode , shake reduction, focus confirmation, etc.
Truth is that on ebay the Minolta A AF lenses were the less expensive AF lens (but not worst I think than Canon/Nikon/pentax ones).
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Blunderstein
Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 74
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Blunderstein wrote:
There are already a number of chipped M42 adapters for the A mount. I have several. This is discussed in a thread on Dyxum:
http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35781
/Erik |
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