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Wide Angle MF lens for APS-C camera
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:27 pm    Post subject: Wide Angle MF lens for APS-C camera Reply with quote
Hi.

Title says it all... well, almost...

I need a MF wide angle lens, to my 40D, that it's extremely sharp in all area of the picture between f/9 to f/16, I'd like it also to have very little distortion and superb color capturing.

Ok, so you can narrow options down i dont want it to be over 300€, about $460 i guess.

Thanks for your help. Very Happy

Barata


PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I am selling one or two Flektogon 4/20


PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Flektogon 4/20 will be a perfect choice.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sorry, but my experience with wide-angle MF lenses isn't very good and for <30mm I prefer my AF Sigma Macro 17-70mm, which is significantly sharper, than any <30mm MF lens I have ever tried - it's only 20% more expensive, than Flektogon (at least in my country).


PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
He says he needs overall sharpness over the whole frame at f/9 or narrower, and great distortion control.
I used to have a Sigma 10-20, it was sharp in the middle but muddy in the corners and with horrendous distortion.
The Flek 4/20 has perfect distortion control and while not really sharp wide open, it is perfectly sharp from f/8 onwards also in the corners.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Wide Angle MF lens for APS-C camera Reply with quote
Barata wrote:
Hi.

Title says it all... well, almost...

I need a MF wide angle lens, to my 40D, that it's extremely sharp in all area of the picture between f/9 to f/16, I'd like it also to have very little distortion and superb color capturing.


Hmmm, well theres the Tokina 17mm f3.5 TL or the Sigma 14mm f3.5...I have'nt used them at f11 as they have such a deep DOF at f5.6 or f8 that stopping down further is unecessary but they are both rectalinear with very low distortions.
At f8 both are sharp, have reasonable contrast and very well contolled CA. I got the Tokina at a pawnbrokers for just £10 ($20) and the Sigma was about £80 ($160), inc postage, on ebay.
The Tokina takes 67mm filters but the Sigma has a large front element and it does'nt have a filter thread so you would have to rig a custom bracket up to take Cokin P's.
I found this TL version on ebay just now:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nikon-Fit-Tokina-17mm-f3-5-AiS-Manual-Wide-Camera-Lens_W0QQitemZ320293018913QQcmdZViewItem


PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
He says he needs overall sharpness over the whole frame at f/9 or narrower, and great distortion control.
I used to have a Sigma 10-20, it was sharp in the middle but muddy in the corners and with horrendous distortion.
The Flek 4/20 has perfect distortion control and while not really sharp wide open, it is perfectly sharp from f/8 onwards also in the corners.

I can't speak about 10-20, but I can say my 17-70 is sharper than flek 20/2.8, especially in the corners. It's sharper than Vivitar Series 1 28/1.9, Flektogon MC 35/2.4, Takumar SMC 35/2.0, SMC 35/3.5, Curtagon 35/2.8, so I don't think it's a matter of bad Flektogon copy. These M42 lenses are faster, some o them are better than the Sigma wide opened, but at f/8, they are not even close. Zeiss Distagon 25/2.8 is probably better, but it's different price range.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Sigma 17-70 is a fantastic lens, I love my copy a lot.
And several "test" have shown that it really plays at least in the same league as most manual superwide angles, honestly!
Even the distortion control is pretty good.
Optically, it is a much better lens than the EF-S 17-85 for instance. (it just lacks the IS.)

Sigma has designed and produces a true gem there!
There are some back- or frontfocus issues with some models, but if you happen to find a good copy, you will love it.

Anyway, there are some really nice manual superwideangle lenses as well:

- CZJ Flektogon 2.8/20 or 4/20 (The 4/20 is much cheaper than the overpriced 2.8/20.)
- Tamron SP 3.5/17
- Tokina 3.5/17 (or the same model branded as Vivitar)

I seriously would recommend to get in touch with Orio and perhaps buy one of his copies. He is not only a very good photographer he also is a very reliable seller.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I will now mess things up a bit.

You've mentioned sigma 10-20... ok, AF but, fair enough, you're just trying to help me out, and i really apreciate that. But, to take things to a deeper analysis i'd like to toss in Tokina 11-16. Reviews have been good, some even say it's better than sigma...

The beauty of this lenses, to me, is the wider end... specially because i have to multiply f by the crop factor.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here's one I took with the Flektogon 4/20 in 2006
camera was the 400D

http://www.oriofoto.net/temp/piacenza_natale_2006/slides/26-400D_pc-flek4-20_061224_01.html

linked because it's wider than 900px

This one is a closeup:
http://www.oriofoto.net/temp/piacenza_natale_2006/slides/05-400D_pc-flek4-20_061223_05.html


PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Barata
If you don't need the speed and you don't seem to with a desire for f8 sharpness.
Take the Flek 4/20 it will be your best option it is zeiss and will have that look.
Don't settle for an Af plastic zoom. That is for convenience. F8 is not convenient it is for sharpness and the best shot.
Getting one of Orio's copies brings the advantage of a lens that is tested by someone who knows what is good or not.
This lens is a legend for a reason that "Sigma capa Tokina" plastic will never be. Wink


PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
What's the aperture you used in the first shot Orio? It seems the lens is kinda soft on the edges.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Barata wrote:
It seems the lens is kinda soft on the edges

Aren't you happy with your Sigma 18-200 F3.5-6.3 DC OS
It have very good performance at 18mm
It is my dream lens


PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Barata wrote:
What's the aperture you used in the first shot Orio? It seems the lens is kinda soft on the edges.


Soft at the edges? And where would you say that?
It is absolutely even.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:57 am    Post subject: Sigma 14mm f3.5 and Tokina 17mm f3.5 TL Reply with quote
Heres some samples from the Sigma:





And heres one from the Tokina:



And here is half-size, 12 shot pano taken with it on a very cloudy, overcast day (Click on the pic to see the bigger version):

http://sigmasd10.fotopic.net/p40218404.html

BTW, I dont know anyone would recommend the Flektagon 20mm as a suitable WA lens as 20mm is equivalent to 32mm on a 40D and that is'nt really that wide. Wink

Last edited by DSG on Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:00 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: Sigma 14mm f3.5 and Tokina 17mm f3.5 TL Reply with quote
DSG wrote:
Heres some samples from the Sigma:

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/6156/sdim3259cfk7.jpg
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2687/sdim3194cdn9.jpg
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2812/sdim3195cbx5.jpg


To me, there are a lot of chromatic aberrations in these pictures. The out of focus background is also not very pleasant.

DSG wrote:
And heres one from the Tokina:

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1732/img07522spp3c2dg1.jpg


This one looks better but it's difficult to judge from a single, rather small picture.

DSG wrote:
BTW, I dont know anyone would recommend the Flektagon 20mm as a suitable WA lens as 20mm is equivalent to 32mm on a 40D and that is'nt really that wide. Wink


Simply because you will never get a clean picture with a modern wide angle with such nice colors as in the Flektogon sample provided by Orio. The Sigma is certainly sharper than the Flektogon (the Nikon 14-24 is even much sharper than the Sigma) but to my eyes it simply fails to produce beautiful pictures. It was a time not so long ago when a 35mm lens was the widest you could get. And guess what, people were taking a lot of great pictures with these lenses that weren't really that wide Wink.

Cheers!

Abbazz


PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Abbazz: here are three full-resolution samples taken by my Sigma 17-70mm, sharpness set to zero in SPP2.5 RAW converter

17mm:



20mm (window shot):



28mm:



PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
Abbazz: here are three full-resolution samples taken by my Sigma 17-70mm, sharpness set to zero in SPP2.5 RAW converter


No doubt your images do look impressive. I particularly love the first and the third. The SD14 equipped with the 17-70 is certainly able to produce some very sharp looking pictures and it has no rival when it comes to the rendering of natural textures (foliage, grass).

The old lenses have their own strong points. The Flektogon 20/4 has almost no distortion, which is certainly not the case for the Sigma (just look at your second picture). I love the way the Flektogon renders the colors. Its bokeh is also among the bests for a wide angle lens.

Cheers!

Abbazz


PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Abbazz wrote:
...which is certainly not the case for the Sigma (just look at your second picture).

If you judge by the horizon, it could look so and so, but the problem is not the lens, but the horizon itself - it is not straight even in reality. Here is a better example of distorsion (17-70 at 20mm):

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