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iangreenhalgh1
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:01 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Ciao!
Your English is excellent and many thanks for making your first post in response to this thread. I am very pleased you like the images, I agree this lens has excellent sharpness and colours, I certainly need to use it more to explore it's potential.
It is a pity you did not collect one of these lenses, it is rather different to a camera lens in the way it works but it seems to do a good job as a camera lens, I like it a lot and I think with some extension tubes it will make an excellent macro lens. The dof is very shallow when used at the short/macro end of it's zoom range so I think I need to fit a cardboard aperture disk to use it for macro work.
Of course, as you say, it is surprising that a lens like this makes such a nice camera lens, I was very lucky I think to have obtained this lens along with a Rodenstock zoom from Gretag for only 99p and 10ukp shipping, they sat in my cupboard for 6 months before I decided to try to use them, I bought them hoping one of them could be used as a macro lens, I was shocked when I got infinity and a nice picture from one of them!
I have removed all the external gearing, rails, springs and metal lugs from the Rodenstock lens, it is now not so heavy, maybe only 1 kilo (the Docter Optics is 2.25 kilos!) and I am going to put an EOS mount on the back of it, but as the rear element is about 8cm diameter, it will require making some metal pieces to enable the fitment of the mount, might take a while but after seeing the way the other lens works I'm prepared to do the work, it appears to be very different in how it works to the Docter Optics lens and hopefully it will also work as a camera lens, Rodenstock make quality optics after all.
I very much look forward to seeing some shots you take with those enlarger lenses you have.
ne the subject of helicoids, the Helios 44-2 lens can have the opetics removed extremely easily by removing just two retaining rings, it then makes an excellent helicoid for use with longer enalrger lenses, I have used one for this purpose, I glued an M39 mount to the front of the Helios lens to it is now an M42 mount helicoid for M39 enlarger lenses. The Helios 44-2 is so common and can be found so cheap, much cheaper than a helicoid.
Once again, many thanks for your post and welcome to our little community! _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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iangreenhalgh1
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:19 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I think it is useful to compare this shot:
to this one taken from almost the same spot with a Helios 44-2:
The Docter lens looks to be a tad longer, so at the long end it appears to be around 60mm I think (the Helios is 58mm). So if the 13.9x zoom setting equates to 60mm or so, then what does the 3.3x end equate to? I have a feeling the focal length stays the same and what changes is the reproduction ratio if that makes sense. At the 60mm end it is at infinity, at the other end it focuses about 1m away, maybe someone who understands optics can work out what these observations indicate about it's focal length?
What really stands out is how much more contrast it has and how much more vivid the colours are, there was absolutely no PP to the shot, exactly as it came out of my EOS. Look at the painted window surrounds of the house, they are so much more saturated and vibrant in the Docter shot. They were taken in different lighting conditions but clearly the lenses render colours in very different ways.
Also, it seems to have a 3D quality, I'm not sure why this is, possibly because of the high contrast and high resolution?
The Helios is a good lens but the Docter outperforms it to a very large degree, I really need to shoot more with it, anyone have any suggestions for what type of shot I should try with it? I think it might be good for landscapes perhaps. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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fuzzywuzzy
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 18 Dec 2010 Posts: 1258 Location: Down East, Canada, eh?
Expire: 2013-11-30
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:39 am Post subject: |
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fuzzywuzzy wrote:
This beast looks like a candidate for studio-style macro, i.e. set up lens/camera on a tripod and focus by gently moving the subject closer/farther away. I expect you'd have no trouble improvising a set of macro rails!
(Of course that sort of photo might not interest you, but it would save lugging the lens around!) _________________ I welcome C&C, editing my pics and reposting them on the forum is fine.
NEX-F3
~~~~~~~~~
CZJ Sonnar 135/4, Biotar 58/2, Pancolar 50/2, Tessar 50/2.8, Flek 35/2.8, Flek 25/4
Super Takumar 135/2.5, 135/3.5, 100/4 bellows, 50/1.4, 28/3.5
Helios 58/2, 3M-5A 500/8, Mir 20M
Vivitar Series 1 70-210 - - - - - - - - Nikkor 200/4
Rikenon 28/2.8 - - - - - - - - Zeiss 50/1.7 Planar
PB 50/2.4, 135/2.8
Yashica 50/1.9, 28/2.8, 135/2.8
Hexanon 28/3.5, 50/1.4 |
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iangreenhalgh1
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:12 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
That was why I bought it in the first place, I expected it would only be useful to mount it vertically on a copy stand or old enlarger stand, I will definitely have to try that, I have a friend who has an old enlarger, I'll see if he wants to sell it. I could also do as you suggest and put some fails on the front, I could easily modify a cheap set of macro bellows for that.
I like the way it shoots at infinity so much I will lug it around though, I have a big padded lens bag originally for the Sigma EX 400mm it will fit nicely in. I am going to get a hefty tripod and fabricate a mount for it, I think a surveyor's tripod and a heavy duty manfrotto head would work with this beast, I'll get one with the hexagonal mounting plate then permanently affix the hex plate to the lens body, I wouldn't feel confident mounting it to the head with a normal 1/4inch screw, I could see it shearing such a screw due to it's weight.
These are crops of the only two half decent macros I managed yesterday, the light was all wrong, not enough of it as it was after 8pm and the sun was too low in the sky, I also missed the focus, the dof is so shallow.
![](http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20118/4077_CRW_2705_1.jpg) _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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pdccameras
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 23 Aug 2009 Posts: 825 Location: Putnam, CT
Expire: 2014-08-11
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:19 am Post subject: |
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pdccameras wrote:
Nice work, Ian - on the lens and the photos!
Your images look critically sharp to my eyes - especially the street seen with the green car.
So what is the total zoom of this beast? I'll be very interested to see mounted on the NEX - or should I say, to see the NEX mounted on it!
P. _________________ Canon 5D Mii, Canon 40D, Canon 350D IR, Sony A7 Mii, Sony Alpha-6000, a ton of lenses: AF & MF and too many cameras to count, all formats: 110 - 4x5. |
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iangreenhalgh1
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:25 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I too can't wait to mount the Nex on it, should be a good combo although will look ludicrous, a tiny camera stuck on the back of a monster lens, ergonomics might be tricky!
It is labelled '3.3-13.9x'
Only at the long end does it hit infinity, as you zoom it back the focus changes, at the short end it focuses about 1m away. The dof also gets smaller, at the long end as you can see in the street shot, it's very deep, but at the short end it's very shallow as you can see in that leaf macro.
All in all, it performs rather strangely and not at all like a camera zoom lens, but the pics are good so it's not a problem that it has such wierd characteristics. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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iangreenhalgh1
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Didn't have much time today due to work but it was such a nice day with gorgeous skies I had to shoot something, sadly the battery went flat on me and I had forgotten the spare so this was all I managed, but I think this lens renders landscapes pretty well, it's higher resolution than the 6mp sensor in my EOS so I really need to get this thing strapped to my NEX to see what it can really do methinks. The lack of geometric distortion makes it great for shooting panoramas, when PS stitches them it takes a lot less time as it doesn't have to correct geometric distortion like it does with other lenses and the result is greater quality, it hasn't had to stretch or squash parts of the images to make em fit.
![](http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20118/4077_Untitled_Panorama4_1.jpg) _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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iangreenhalgh1
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
It was a horrid day today but I still managed a few shots inbetween the rain storms. I also shot some with my Canon FL 2.5/35 nd threw them away because they were nowhere near as sharp and contrasty a what the Docter Optics monster lens produced, not that the Canon isn't a good lens, just this one is wonderful.
![](http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20118/4077_Untitled_Panorama7_1.jpg) _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Kathmandu
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 09 Dec 2009 Posts: 1479 Location: (Kathmandu,Nepal. Currently)Pacific Northwest, USA
Expire: 2012-04-08
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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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Kathmandu wrote:
Seems to very well in black&white , I am curious how black and white potraits would come out. _________________ kathmandu
Sony α 700 DSLR
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iangreenhalgh1
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I attempted some macros too but damn is this thing hard to use in the macro setting, hence the focus is a bit off on these but they show it has potential for macro work.
![](http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20118/4077_CRW_2940_1.jpg) _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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iangreenhalgh1
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Kathmandu wrote: |
Seems to very well in black&white , I am curious how black and white potraits would come out. |
I think it works well in BW cos it's got a lot of contrast. I shall try a portrait or two with it, thanks for the suggestion. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Kathmandu
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 09 Dec 2009 Posts: 1479 Location: (Kathmandu,Nepal. Currently)Pacific Northwest, USA
Expire: 2012-04-08
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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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Kathmandu wrote:
I like the detail on the 3rd one. _________________ kathmandu
Sony α 700 DSLR
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iangreenhalgh1
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I like that one too, it's slightly front focussed but still looks okay, it's really hard to focus this thing for macros.
I turned this shot to BW, looks alright, definitely need to shoot some more BW with this thing, tempted to but a film EOS to shoot BW and colour slides with this lens.
![](http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20118/4077_CRW_3000b_1.jpg) _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Lloydy
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 7779 Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
There's a lot of potential in that lens Ian, those pano's are very good. _________________ LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
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iangreenhalgh1
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:28 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Indeed David, just handheld, three or four shots stitched in PS, no other PP, the detail in them is pretty fantastic for a 6MP camera, no other lens in my collection is as sharp, even my SK Componon-S.
The key now is learning to unlock it's potential, if you recall I had a thread about choosing the best lens for landscape work - I doubt I'll find anything better for that than this lens, certainly not within my limited budget.
The other Gretag Imaging lens I have, a Rodenstock, is going to need a much trickier conversion job, might need someone with a lathe and engineering skills so I might have to give it to such a person who can make it work, I have my doubts I will, always good to pass on these things to a good home methinks. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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pat donnelly
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Posts: 666 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:53 am Post subject: |
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pat donnelly wrote:
Superb quality lens. I had a look at Docter as they make extremely expensive c mount lenses often for industry.
Very expensive!!
Some superb quality to some of the shots, Ian! _________________ ---------------------------------
EP-1, E-410, E-300, D100, D1,
C-Mt: 25mm 1.9, 75mm 1.4, 75mm 1.3, 75mm 1.9, Ultra wides, one inch sensor, 20+ c-mount zooms
OM 350mm f2.8, Nikkor 180 f2.8, Exa 180 f2.8,
Tamrons: 90mm f2.5, 500mm f8 x3, 135 f2.5, 200 f3.5, 24mm 2.5, 28mm 2.5 x8,
FD 500mm mirror lens |
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iangreenhalgh1
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Cheers Pat, I got lucky with this one.
My M42-NEX adapter just arrived to can try it on my NEX now. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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iangreenhalgh1
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Well, my adapters arrived today so I strapped the monster onto my NEX and went and shot some trial pics.
It still looks sharp but not as sharp to my eyes and the contrast is not so good, doesn't shine on the NEX sensor as much as it does on the EOS I think.
I had the NEX in Program mode, maybe that didn't help?
Anyways, take a look at these and compare them to the EOS shots and let me know what you think please.
![](http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20118/4077_Untitled_Panorama2smallbw_1.jpg) _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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iangreenhalgh1
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
A few more, these are stitched panoramas, lots of detail in the second quarry shot.
![](http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20118/4077_Untitled_Panorama7_2.jpg) _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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iangreenhalgh1
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
No-one got any comments on the IQ of the EOS shots vs the IQ of the NEX shots?
You can click on the images to view em larger, the panos are pretty big and need to be viewed larger. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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peterqd
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
No-one got any comments on the IQ of the EOS shots vs the IQ of the NEX shots?
You can click on the images to view em larger, the panos are pretty big and need to be viewed larger. |
OK, in the first NEX set I think #1 and the B&W one of the trees suffer from camera shake. I bet this lens is a brute to hold still. The others are quite sharp but maybe the EOS shots are better. There is definitely less contrast with the NEX shots, which reduces the impression of sharpness, however I wonder if the jpg compression rate is similar from each camera? _________________ Peter - Moderator |
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Tervueren
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 18 May 2011 Posts: 1177 Location: West Sussex, United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-11-08
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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Tervueren wrote:
The Nex photos do look quite blurred, compare those against the 'Ash Bank' photo for example |
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iangreenhalgh1
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Yes, I agree, the NEX shots look less sharp and with less contrast.
I wonder why, both the EOS and NEX shots were done in RAW mode.
I had the NEX in program mode which is probably why there is some softness from shake, I will have to try it again in manual mode.
I'm yet to be impressed with the IQ the NEX produces, could well be the monkey operating it of course! _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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woos
Joined: 21 Feb 2012 Posts: 3 Location: a giant bucket
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Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:39 am Post subject: |
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woos wrote:
Wow...heh...this thread actually caused me to register here...
I have one of these lenses as well. I can tell you all about what it is from, by the way. Figured I'd register to throw the info up.
It's an optional lens for a gretag masterlab 740 minilab. Basically an older minilab. It has both a film side and a paper side. So you could develop film then print film all on one little machine. They weren't the most reliable machines. They have a tendency to leak chemistry on some circuit boards, causing smoke and fire! Most of them that were in the U.S. have been scrapped, some have been shipped overseas or to Mexico where they enjoy a good life, kept up by spare parts cannibalized from spare machines.
It wasn't a digital machine, but it did have a computer and rudimentary ccd and projector in it...the purpose of this was to make your contact sheet from your film strip. Actually it had two computers...one of them an embedded one with an amd 186 (yes, I know, strange, but they existed, didn't make it into any pcs that I know of, but some were used in embedded stuff!). The computer that made the film contact sheets ran Windows NT (forget which version, I think 3.5.1).
Anyway, I believe you are correct in that the lens cost several thousand dollars new. I have one, I took it when we were scrapping the one we had laying around for support purposes. I've just had it sitting around as a talking piece. Never thought to mount it on my camera! Thank you for the thread, I will give it a shot. ![Razz](images/smiles/icon_razz.gif) _________________ amanathia.zenfolio.com |
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iangreenhalgh1
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:04 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Wow, I'm really pleased that you found this thread and decided to join the forum!
Would love to see some samples when you get chance to try yours. I have been wondering where I have put mine, I'll have to find it and try it again, I've got a lot better at shooting with the NEX since the last time I tried it. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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