Docter Optics 3.3-13.9x Wide Angle Zoom

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

Ciao!

Your English is excellent and many thanks for making your first post in response to this thread. I am very pleased you like the images, I agree this lens has excellent sharpness and colours, I certainly need to use it more to explore it's potential.

It is a pity you did not collect one of these lenses, it is rather different to a camera lens in the way it works but it seems to do a good job as a camera lens, I like it a lot and I think with some extension tubes it will make an excellent macro lens. The dof is very shallow when used at the short/macro end of it's zoom range so I think I need to fit a cardboard aperture disk to use it for macro work.

Of course, as you say, it is surprising that a lens like this makes such a nice camera lens, I was very lucky I think to have obtained this lens along with a Rodenstock zoom from Gretag for only 99p and 10ukp shipping, they sat in my cupboard for 6 months before I decided to try to use them, I bought them hoping one of them could be used as a macro lens, I was shocked when I got infinity and a nice picture from one of them!

I have removed all the external gearing, rails, springs and metal lugs from the Rodenstock lens, it is now not so heavy, maybe only 1 kilo (the Docter Optics is 2.25 kilos!) and I am going to put an EOS mount on the back of it, but as the rear element is about 8cm diameter, it will require making some metal pieces to enable the fitment of the mount, might take a while but after seeing the way the other lens works I'm prepared to do the work, it appears to be very different in how it works to the Docter Optics lens and hopefully it will also work as a camera lens, Rodenstock make quality optics after all.

I very much look forward to seeing some shots you take with those enlarger lenses you have.

ne the subject of helicoids, the Helios 44-2 lens can have the opetics removed extremely easily by removing just two retaining rings, it then makes an excellent helicoid for use with longer enalrger lenses, I have used one for this purpose, I glued an M39 mount to the front of the Helios lens to it is now an M42 mount helicoid for M39 enlarger lenses. The Helios 44-2 is so common and can be found so cheap, much cheaper than a helicoid.

Once again, many thanks for your post and welcome to our little community!

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

I think it is useful to compare this shot:

to this one taken from almost the same spot with a Helios 44-2:

The Docter lens looks to be a tad longer, so at the long end it appears to be around 60mm I think (the Helios is 58mm). So if the 13.9x zoom setting equates to 60mm or so, then what does the 3.3x end equate to? I have a feeling the focal length stays the same and what changes is the reproduction ratio if that makes sense. At the 60mm end it is at infinity, at the other end it focuses about 1m away, maybe someone who understands optics can work out what these observations indicate about it's focal length?

What really stands out is how much more contrast it has and how much more vivid the colours are, there was absolutely no PP to the shot, exactly as it came out of my EOS. Look at the painted window surrounds of the house, they are so much more saturated and vibrant in the Docter shot. They were taken in different lighting conditions but clearly the lenses render colours in very different ways.

Also, it seems to have a 3D quality, I'm not sure why this is, possibly because of the high contrast and high resolution?

The Helios is a good lens but the Docter outperforms it to a very large degree, I really need to shoot more with it, anyone have any suggestions for what type of shot I should try with it? I think it might be good for landscapes perhaps.

fuzzywuzzy · Expire: 2013-11-30

This beast looks like a candidate for studio-style macro, i.e. set up lens/camera on a tripod and focus by gently moving the subject closer/farther away. I expect you'd have no trouble improvising a set of macro rails!

(Of course that sort of photo might not interest you, but it would save lugging the lens around!)

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

That was why I bought it in the first place, I expected it would only be useful to mount it vertically on a copy stand or old enlarger stand, I will definitely have to try that, I have a friend who has an old enlarger, I'll see if he wants to sell it. I could also do as you suggest and put some fails on the front, I could easily modify a cheap set of macro bellows for that.

I like the way it shoots at infinity so much I will lug it around though, I have a big padded lens bag originally for the Sigma EX 400mm it will fit nicely in. I am going to get a hefty tripod and fabricate a mount for it, I think a surveyor's tripod and a heavy duty manfrotto head would work with this beast, I'll get one with the hexagonal mounting plate then permanently affix the hex plate to the lens body, I wouldn't feel confident mounting it to the head with a normal 1/4inch screw, I could see it shearing such a screw due to it's weight.

These are crops of the only two half decent macros I managed yesterday, the light was all wrong, not enough of it as it was after 8pm and the sun was too low in the sky, I also missed the focus, the dof is so shallow.

pdccameras · Expire: 2014-08-11

Nice work, Ian - on the lens and the photos!

Your images look critically sharp to my eyes - especially the street seen with the green car.

So what is the total zoom of this beast? I'll be very interested to see mounted on the NEX - or should I say, to see the NEX mounted on it!

P.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

I too can't wait to mount the Nex on it, should be a good combo although will look ludicrous, a tiny camera stuck on the back of a monster lens, ergonomics might be tricky!

It is labelled '3.3-13.9x'

Only at the long end does it hit infinity, as you zoom it back the focus changes, at the short end it focuses about 1m away. The dof also gets smaller, at the long end as you can see in the street shot, it's very deep, but at the short end it's very shallow as you can see in that leaf macro.

All in all, it performs rather strangely and not at all like a camera zoom lens, but the pics are good so it's not a problem that it has such wierd characteristics.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

Didn't have much time today due to work but it was such a nice day with gorgeous skies I had to shoot something, sadly the battery went flat on me and I had forgotten the spare so this was all I managed, but I think this lens renders landscapes pretty well, it's higher resolution than the 6mp sensor in my EOS so I really need to get this thing strapped to my NEX to see what it can really do methinks. The lack of geometric distortion makes it great for shooting panoramas, when PS stitches them it takes a lot less time as it doesn't have to correct geometric distortion like it does with other lenses and the result is greater quality, it hasn't had to stretch or squash parts of the images to make em fit.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

It was a horrid day today but I still managed a few shots inbetween the rain storms. I also shot some with my Canon FL 2.5/35 nd threw them away because they were nowhere near as sharp and contrasty a what the Docter Optics monster lens produced, not that the Canon isn't a good lens, just this one is wonderful.

Kathmandu · Expire: 2012-04-08

Seems to very well in black&white , I am curious how black and white potraits would come out.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

I attempted some macros too but damn is this thing hard to use in the macro setting, hence the focus is a bit off on these but they show it has potential for macro work.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

Kathmandu · Expire: 2012-04-08

I like the detail on the 3rd one.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

I like that one too, it's slightly front focussed but still looks okay, it's really hard to focus this thing for macros.

I turned this shot to BW, looks alright, definitely need to shoot some more BW with this thing, tempted to but a film EOS to shoot BW and colour slides with this lens.

Lloydy · Expire: 2022-01-01

There's a lot of potential in that lens Ian, those pano's are very good.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

Indeed David, just handheld, three or four shots stitched in PS, no other PP, the detail in them is pretty fantastic for a 6MP camera, no other lens in my collection is as sharp, even my SK Componon-S.

The key now is learning to unlock it's potential, if you recall I had a thread about choosing the best lens for landscape work - I doubt I'll find anything better for that than this lens, certainly not within my limited budget.

The other Gretag Imaging lens I have, a Rodenstock, is going to need a much trickier conversion job, might need someone with a lathe and engineering skills so I might have to give it to such a person who can make it work, I have my doubts I will, always good to pass on these things to a good home methinks.

pat donnelly · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:53 am Post subject:

Superb quality lens. I had a look at Docter as they make extremely expensive c mount lenses often for industry.

Very expensive!!

Some superb quality to some of the shots, Ian!

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

Cheers Pat, I got lucky with this one.

My M42-NEX adapter just arrived to can try it on my NEX now.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

Well, my adapters arrived today so I strapped the monster onto my NEX and went and shot some trial pics.

It still looks sharp but not as sharp to my eyes and the contrast is not so good, doesn't shine on the NEX sensor as much as it does on the EOS I think.

I had the NEX in Program mode, maybe that didn't help?

Anyways, take a look at these and compare them to the EOS shots and let me know what you think please.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

A few more, these are stitched panoramas, lots of detail in the second quarry shot.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

No-one got any comments on the IQ of the EOS shots vs the IQ of the NEX shots?

You can click on the images to view em larger, the panos are pretty big and need to be viewed larger.

peterqd · Expire: 2014-01-04

Tervueren · Expire: 2014-11-08

The Nex photos do look quite blurred, compare those against the 'Ash Bank' photo for example

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

Yes, I agree, the NEX shots look less sharp and with less contrast.

I wonder why, both the EOS and NEX shots were done in RAW mode.

I had the NEX in program mode which is probably why there is some softness from shake, I will have to try it again in manual mode.

I'm yet to be impressed with the IQ the NEX produces, could well be the monkey operating it of course!

woos · Joined: 21 Feb 2012 Posts: 3 Location: a giant bucket

Wow...heh...this thread actually caused me to register here...

I have one of these lenses as well. I can tell you all about what it is from, by the way. Figured I'd register to throw the info up.

It's an optional lens for a gretag masterlab 740 minilab. Basically an older minilab. It has both a film side and a paper side. So you could develop film then print film all on one little machine. They weren't the most reliable machines. They have a tendency to leak chemistry on some circuit boards, causing smoke and fire! Most of them that were in the U.S. have been scrapped, some have been shipped overseas or to Mexico where they enjoy a good life, kept up by spare parts cannibalized from spare machines. Smile

It wasn't a digital machine, but it did have a computer and rudimentary ccd and projector in it...the purpose of this was to make your contact sheet from your film strip. Smile

Actually it had two computers...one of them an embedded one with an amd 186 (yes, I know, strange, but they existed, didn't make it into any pcs that I know of, but some were used in embedded stuff!). The computer that made the film contact sheets ran Windows NT (forget which version, I think 3.5.1).

Anyway, I believe you are correct in that the lens cost several thousand dollars new. I have one, I took it when we were scrapping the one we had laying around for support purposes. I've just had it sitting around as a talking piece. Never thought to mount it on my camera! Thank you for the thread, I will give it a shot. Razz

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

Wow, I'm really pleased that you found this thread and decided to join the forum!

Would love to see some samples when you get chance to try yours. I have been wondering where I have put mine, I'll have to find it and try it again, I've got a lot better at shooting with the NEX since the last time I tried it.