using pyro developer

Katastrofo · Expire: 2013-11-19

I got a recipe for PMK Pyro from FADU and am quite impressed with the
flickr shots I've seen and of course Jules' shots using this developer. Here
is one I especially liked since I'm looking for an ideal developer for Efke
KB film:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2672/4103931941_6ac3de74f3_b.jpg

Since I already have half the chemicals to do this, will be ordering the
other two from Artcraft.

Besides Jules, has anyone else had experience with Pryo?

Seele · Joined: 17 Apr 2009 Posts: 742 Location: Sydney Australia

For the record, there are two developing agents which are different - and yet chemically related - that can be confused.

When we say "pyro" we mean pyrogallol, or pyrogallic acid. In some formulae books there is another developing agent called catechol, sometimes called pyrocathechin. They work differently.

Normally pyro is meant for large format negatives, it is not a fine grain developer by a long shot, although the newer formulations addressed to this situation somewhat. However, I have used formulae using catechol and they work quite well, and much simpler to compound.

kds315* · Expire: 2021-03-09

Katastrofo · Expire: 2013-11-19

Klaus, thanks!

Seele,

This is the PMK Pyro recipe Trevor Crone gave me:

Soln. A:(Stock solution)

distilled water---------------200ml
sodium metabisulphite--------5g
metol-------------------------2.5g
pyrogallic acid----------------25g
water to 250ml

Soln. B:

distilled water---------------400ml
sodium metaborate---------125g
water to 500ml

working solution:
@21C, 1 part (ml) of A to 2 parts (ml) of B to 100ml water

One of your countrymen down under uses Rodinal either at 1:50 or 1:100
(have to check) to stand develop Efke KB, and the results are superb.

Bill

Seele · Joined: 17 Apr 2009 Posts: 742 Location: Sydney Australia

Bill,

That's the regular PMK; and should work great with slow films. You can certainly experiment with faster films, see how that goes!

If you are ordering more raw chemicals, you can try a new formula which is getting very popular:

Pyrocat-HD

Stock Solution A
Distilled water 75ml
Sodium metabisulphite 1g
Catechol 5g
Phenidone 0.2g
Potassium bromide 0.2g
Distilled water to 100ml

Stock Solution B
Distilled water 70ml
Potassium carbonate 75g
Distilled water to 100ml

To use, dilute 1:1:100

For KB14, try 1:1:50, develop for 10 minutes.

Another formula I used a lot when photographing under very demanding conditions, such as stage photography where the highlights can flare out easily:

Hans Windisch compensating developer

Stock Solution A
Water at 52˚C 75ml
Sodium sulphite (anhydrous) 1.25g
Catechol 8g
Water to 100ml

Stock Solution B
Water at room temp. 75ml
Sodium hydroxide 10g
Water to 100ml

To make working solution dilute 5:3:200. Downrate film by one stop, develop time 6-8 minutes.

Catechol negatives are also somewhat stained and when wet you can see a relief of the image in the emulsion. Use a plain fixer, do not squeegee, just soak in wetting agent after final wash and hang up to dry.

Katastrofo · Expire: 2013-11-19

Seele, the Pyrocat-HD looks interesting. Is this suitable for both slow
and fast films?

Also what are the recommended dev times for ISO 50, 100, and 400?

Thanks for posting these!

lulalake · Expire: 2011-11-18

Hi Bill,
Pyrocat-HD along with other types (Wimberley H2D2 and several others) are available at the photographers formulary in dry mix or glycol (which lasts practically indefinitely)

I think the times are available on the net possibly at www.photoformulary.com or at digital truth massive development chart.

PS pre mixed are fairly inexpensive .

Cheers

Jules

Katastrofo · Expire: 2013-11-19

Jules, thanks for the info!

Seele · Joined: 17 Apr 2009 Posts: 742 Location: Sydney Australia

Bill,

I just did a search and came up with some pages on Pyrocat HD:

http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Pyrocat/pyrocat.html

http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/PCat/pcat.html

Note that the article above lumped together pyrogallol and catechol.

http://www.digitaltruth.com/store/cart/Pyrocat-HD-10-Liters-Liquid-p-361.html

Katastrofo · Expire: 2013-11-19

Seele, quite a coincidence as I've been looking at the same pages! I
think I will get the liquid form of Pyrocat-HD as mixing dry phenols isn't
my idea of fun. And rubber gloves are a must with this stuff...

lulalake · Expire: 2011-11-18

Seele · Joined: 17 Apr 2009 Posts: 742 Location: Sydney Australia

By the way Windisch worked out a very simple one-shot catechol developer:

Dissolve separately 1g of catechol, and 20g sodium carbonate (crystals), mix them together and water to 500ml. Use immediately. No need for acid fixer.

I still have to try this though, would be as simple as developer gets.

Katastrofo · Expire: 2013-11-19

Jules, I'll be ordering the Pyrocat very soon.

Seele, this last recipe sounds interesting indeed! Maybe you can guess
what this guy used to develop these shots:

http://forum.manualfocus.org/viewtopic.php?id=10621

I go back to look at this thread because it is my ideal of what I would like
to do, maybe it involves getting a Leica, lol, but the sharpness, tones,
acutance are outstanding. The Pyro seems to have these qualities, I've
faved some flickr shots that are mindboggling.

I'm still thinking about mixing phenols as I like mixing chems, but need
to suss out the ventilation and it's getting colder outside. Don't have
a Laminar Flow Hood from my pharmacy days, either.

this is a flickr fave using Pyrocat-mc:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2619/3902249939_6cab2c690a_o.jpg

Seele · Joined: 17 Apr 2009 Posts: 742 Location: Sydney Australia

Katastrofo · Expire: 2013-11-19

Seele, yes, silly of me to ask you to guess what developer looking at
small files on a monitor! Laughing

My concern about the phenols is the fumes DO go everywhere when
dissolving/mixing and I think I've resolved the ventilation problem. In
one hallway is this monstrous ventilation fan that draws air up and out
of the house which drives these curious vented/revolving globes on
the roof...should work nicely. The temperature in the house might drop
10-15 degrees, though. Laughing

lulalake · Expire: 2011-11-18

Katastrofo · Expire: 2013-11-19

I find this last recipe of Seele's very interesting and want to try it. After
extensive research I ordered from Freestyle, Kodak HC-110 plus Fotospeed
stop and fixer. I really like the one-shot idea that is not from working solution
which is what Seele's recipe is as well.

I'll still use Barry's 2-Bath for being very user-friendly and cheap as
chips to make.

Seele · Joined: 17 Apr 2009 Posts: 742 Location: Sydney Australia

Hi Jules and Bill,

I would be interested to see how that Windisch formula works out. He gave processing times too for several films but of course, those films are no longer available. Shooting from the hip, I would guess a starting point development time of seven minutes for slow films, and 10 for fast films, then start your tests and calibration procedure.

Katastrofo · Expire: 2013-11-19

So, after developing in this for 10 minutes (ISO 400) would just go to a
water stop then 5 minute wash? Or just a wash for 7 minutes, lol. If so,
how easy. Seele, this would be a staining developer, right?

Seele · Joined: 17 Apr 2009 Posts: 742 Location: Sydney Australia

Bill,

It is more like after development, use stop bath, then fix normally; you still have to fix the negative to remove the unused silver salts. By not requiring an acid fixer, Windisch meant you could use a plain hypo solution, saving the need for metabisulphite, But of course, any fixer for film would work just as well.

Catechol normally works as a staining developing agent, the negative image should have a slight brownish tone but it also prints as negative density, the negative should appear to be a little on the thin side to our eyes. I do not know how that corresponds to scanning quality, so it would be necessary to carry out calibration tests to determine EI and development time to establish your optimal combination.