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Big Dawg
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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Location: Thach Alabama
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 Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:51 pm Post subject: Twin Brothers from Different Mothers |
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Big Dawg wrote:
Just received 2 new lens. A Vivitar 200mm f/3.5 (Kiron) and a Vivitar 200mm f/3.5 (Komine). Virtually identical in design except for the difference in the color of the meter's marks. Red for the Kiron and Green for the Komine one. I put the 200mm Vivitar bright Band lens beside them for size comparison. They are quite compact as you can see but very well made and somewhat heavy. I like that myself as they all have a feeling of quality about them.
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Big Dawg
Last edited by Big Dawg on Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dimitrygo
Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 561
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Twin Brothers from Different Mothers |
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dimitrygo wrote:
| Big Dawg wrote: |
| Just received 2 new lens. A Vivitar 200mm f/3.5 (Kiron) and a Vivitar 200mm f/3.5 (Komine). Virtually identical in design except for the difference in the color of the meter's marks. Red for the Kiron and Green for the Komine one. |
Very strange. I would expect some differences in construction, lettering etc.
I don't own any of those lenses but I see on net that the 135mm lenses made by Kiron and Komine are quite different. |
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FernandoB12
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 231
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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FernandoB12 wrote:
Beautifullll
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Big Dawg
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 2530
Location: Thach Alabama
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: Twin Brothers from Different Mothers |
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Big Dawg wrote:
| dimitrygo wrote: |
| Big Dawg wrote: |
| Just received 2 new lens. A Vivitar 200mm f/3.5 (Kiron) and a Vivitar 200mm f/3.5 (Komine). Virtually identical in design except for the difference in the color of the meter's marks. Red for the Kiron and Green for the Komine one. |
Very strange. I would expect some differences in construction, lettering etc.
I don't own any of those lenses but I see on net that the 135mm lenses made by Kiron and Komine are quite different. |
Recently I've concentrated my collecting on the 200mm Vivitars. The 135's are next. I don't know that all the Kiron and Komine 135mm's are totally different but time and collecting will tell in the end.
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Big Dawg
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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Location: Thach Alabama
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Big Dawg wrote:
| FernandoB12 wrote: |
| Beautifullll |
They are aren't they Fernando.
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cooltouch
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 9096
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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cooltouch wrote:
Very interesting. I would have expected to see more difference. I have one identical to your Komine (which I've mentioned before).
Have you had a chance yet to compare them optically? I'd be interested in the results, especially since they are almost identical in appearance, which causes me to conclude that they are most likely the same in terms of optical design.
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 4060
Location: Charleston
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
Same grip as my beloved Vivitar 135mm.
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casualcollector
Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 749
Location: Spaced out on Florida's Space Coast
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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casualcollector wrote:
That's a headscratcher, Dawg. I wonder how Mr. Kino and Mr. Nittoh are going to explain that? Any thoughts on who is responsible for the bright band 200?
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Andrew G.
Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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Andrew G. wrote:
| cooltouch wrote: |
| Have you had a chance yet to compare them optically? I'd be interested in the results, especially since they are almost identical in appearance, which causes me to conclude that they are most likely the same in terms of optical design. |
Seeing as Vivitar apparently designed a lot (but not all) of their optics, it wouldn't surprise me if for some strange reason, the same exact optic and barrel was actually outsourced to the two different brands. |
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walter g
Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 2463
Location: NC, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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walter g wrote:
To me it looks like someone screwed a Kiron name ring on a Komine lens.
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aoleg
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 1387
Location: Berlin, DE
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:23 am Post subject: |
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aoleg wrote:
I had a Komine-made 200/3.5 Vivitar, and it was a fine, well balanced performer. Sharp, with beautiful rendering. I sold it for a Nikkor 200/4 Ai, a sharper lens with visibly higher contrast and color saturation.
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Big Dawg
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 2530
Location: Thach Alabama
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:56 am Post subject: |
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Big Dawg wrote:
| cooltouch wrote: |
Very interesting. I would have expected to see more difference. I have one identical to your Komine (which I've mentioned before).
Have you had a chance yet to compare them optically? I'd be interested in the results, especially since they are almost identical in appearance, which causes me to conclude that they are most likely the same in terms of optical design. |
I agree Michael. Probably the same lens combination. I plan on a comparison test of all my 200mm lens, these two included.
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Big Dawg
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:02 am Post subject: |
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Big Dawg wrote:
| woodrim wrote: |
| Same grip as my beloved Vivitar 135mm. |
In the early 70's it was they way Viv made their focus grips. Still pretty today.
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Big Dawg |
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Big Dawg
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:05 am Post subject: |
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Big Dawg wrote:
| casualcollector wrote: |
| That's a headscratcher, Dawg. I wonder how Mr. Kino and Mr. Nittoh are going to explain that? Any thoughts on who is responsible for the bright band 200? |
Pre 70's and probably made by Kiron. I'm looking for the Chrome Nose 200mm to compare the two. They have the same type of serial numbers. The serial numbers start with the focal length.
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Big Dawg
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 2530
Location: Thach Alabama
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:06 am Post subject: |
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Big Dawg wrote:
| Andrew G. wrote: |
| cooltouch wrote: |
| Have you had a chance yet to compare them optically? I'd be interested in the results, especially since they are almost identical in appearance, which causes me to conclude that they are most likely the same in terms of optical design. |
Seeing as Vivitar apparently designed a lot (but not all) of their optics, it wouldn't surprise me if for some strange reason, the same exact optic and barrel was actually outsourced to the two different brands. |
Makes sense to me Andrew.
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Big Dawg
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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Location: Thach Alabama
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:07 am Post subject: |
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Big Dawg wrote:
| walter g wrote: |
| To me it looks like someone screwed a Kiron name ring on a Komine lens. |
Possible I guess but there are more of them out there so he or she was a very busy person! LOL
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Big Dawg
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:10 am Post subject: |
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Big Dawg wrote:
| aoleg wrote: |
| I had a Komine-made 200/3.5 Vivitar, and it was a fine, well balanced performer. Sharp, with beautiful rendering. I sold it for a Nikkor 200/4 Ai, a sharper lens with visibly higher contrast and color saturation. |
Got 2 Komines and I do like the newer version. Have to do a comparison to see which is better.
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walter g
Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 2463
Location: NC, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:02 am Post subject: |
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walter g wrote:
| Big Dawg wrote: |
| walter g wrote: |
| To me it looks like someone screwed a Kiron name ring on a Komine lens. |
Possible I guess but there are more of them out there so he or she was a very busy person! LOL |
Just suprised me to see a Kiron look like a Komine. I guees another possibility is Vivitar contracted Komine to build X number of lenses, and for some reason they couldn't finish the order. So they had Kiron finish the order using the same build drawings.
Nice looking lenses by the way. Might have to get me one, after you test them. 
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Main cameras
Panasonic G5,Nikon J1,Pentax Q10,Sony Nex 6
Minolta MC W SI 2.5/28, MD 2.8/28, MC W SG 3.5/28, MC Celtic 3.5/28, MC W HG 2.8/35, MD Celtic 2.8/35, QE 4/35, Rokkor X 2/45, MC Rokkor X PG 1.4/50, MC Rokkor X PG 1.7/50, MD Rokkor X 1.7/50, MD 2/50, MC Rokkor PF 1.7/55, MC Rokkor PF 1.9/55, Auto Tele Rokkor PG 2.8/135, MC Tele Rokkor QD 3.5/135, TC 4/135, MC Celtic 4/200, MC Tele Rokkor PE 4.5/200
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Various Soligor,Sun,Fujita,Komura,Spitatone, etc. Lenses
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aoleg
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 1387
Location: Berlin, DE
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:21 am Post subject: |
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aoleg wrote:
| Big Dawg wrote: |
| aoleg wrote: |
| I had a Komine-made 200/3.5 Vivitar, and it was a fine, well balanced performer. Sharp, with beautiful rendering. I sold it for a Nikkor 200/4 Ai, a sharper lens with visibly higher contrast and color saturation. |
Got 2 Komines and I do like the newer version. Have to do a comparison to see which is better. |
I tried Komine and Tokina versions of this lens. The Komine was single-coated and looked exactly as yours; the Tokina was a later RMC version. The Tokina was visibly softer, with less contrast (despite multicoatings) and mushy colors. The Tokina had smoother bokeh, but that alone wasn't quite enough. (The Nikkor is pretty rough in bokeh by the way).
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Big Dawg
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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Location: Thach Alabama
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Big Dawg wrote:
| walter g wrote: |
| Big Dawg wrote: |
| walter g wrote: |
| To me it looks like someone screwed a Kiron name ring on a Komine lens. |
Possible I guess but there are more of them out there so he or she was a very busy person! LOL |
Just suprised me to see a Kiron look like a Komine. I guees another possibility is Vivitar contracted Komine to build X number of lenses, and for some reason they couldn't finish the order. So they had Kiron finish the order using the same build drawings.
Nice looking lenses by the way. Might have to get me one, after you test them. |
Sounds like something Vivitar would have done.
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Big Dawg
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 2530
Location: Thach Alabama
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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Big Dawg wrote:
| aoleg wrote: |
| Big Dawg wrote: |
| aoleg wrote: |
| I had a Komine-made 200/3.5 Vivitar, and it was a fine, well balanced performer. Sharp, with beautiful rendering. I sold it for a Nikkor 200/4 Ai, a sharper lens with visibly higher contrast and color saturation. |
Got 2 Komines and I do like the newer version. Have to do a comparison to see which is better. |
I tried Komine and Tokina versions of this lens. The Komine was single-coated and looked exactly as yours; the Tokina was a later RMC version. The Tokina was visibly softer, with less contrast (despite multicoatings) and mushy colors. The Tokina had smoother bokeh, but that alone wasn't quite enough. (The Nikkor is pretty rough in bokeh by the way). |
We will soon see how the Kiron version stacks up!
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PBFACTS
Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 568
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:16 am Post subject: |
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PBFACTS wrote:
| walter g wrote: |
| Just suprised me to see a Kiron look like a Komine. I guees another possibility is Vivitar contracted Komine to build X number of lenses, and for some reason they couldn't finish the order. So they had Kiron finish the order using the same build drawings.) |
I think it is the most logical except i presume opposite (kiron main supplier and komine second) because the kiron version has the usual vivitar color coding (red marking)
Another possibility : vivitar bought to kiron and because of too big sales , bought a little stock to their "friends" of soligor and just changed the front ring .. i said that because the green color was distinctive of soligor and the red coding was distinctive of vivitar
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OM USER .. I KEEP/USE:
Om2 sp + T32 (grip/filter/zoom) + T8
+ Zuiko 16mm 3.5 / 55mm 1.2 / 65-200 4/ x1.4
+ Sigma 8mm 4.0 / 14mm 3.5 / 18-35 3.5-4.5
+ Tamron 35/105 2.8
+Tokina 150/500 5.6
+ Kiron 105/2.8 macro 1:1
+ Vivitar S1 90/180 falst field macro
+ 2x Doubler HR7
>>I SELL: OM10 + OM4ti
+ i sell: OM Md1 + Md 2 + Grip PowerPack + charger
+ i sell: OM Zuiko 24mm 2.8 / 28mm 3.5 / 50mm 1.8 / 50mm 1.4 / 50mm 3.5 macro / 35-70 3.6 / 35-105 3.5-4.5 / 75-150 4 / 500mm / 2xA
+ i sell: OM Kiron 28/105 3.2-4.5 / 1.5 converter
+ i sell: OM Makinon reflex 5.6/300 + Spector reflex (makinon) 500mm
+ i sell: OM Macro panagor extender 1:1
+ i sell: OM Sigma 16mm 2.8 fisheye (last version) / 21-35 3.5-4.2 ot/ 28-70 2.8 /1000mm mirror
+ i sell: Tamron 28-70 3.5-4.5 / 28-80 sp 3.5-4.2 / 28-135 sp 4-4.5 / /28-200 3.5 / 35-135 3..5-4.5 / 90mm sp macro 1:1 2.8
+ i sell: OM Soligor 2x doubler / x3 converte
+ i sell: Soligor FisheEye x0.15
+ i sell: OM Tokina 28/135 4-4.6 / 70/210 3.5 (= vivitar S1 v2)
+ i sell: OM Vivitar 28-70 3.5-4.8 / 28-90 s1 2.8-3.5 / 35-70 2.8-3.8 / 55/2.8 Macro 1:1 (komine) / 70-150 3.8 ot (kiron) / 75-150 ot 3.8 (tokina + 2x matched)
+ i sell : OM cosina 100-500 5.6/8 |
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Big Dawg
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 2530
Location: Thach Alabama
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Big Dawg wrote:
| PBFACTS wrote: |
| walter g wrote: |
| Just suprised me to see a Kiron look like a Komine. I guees another possibility is Vivitar contracted Komine to build X number of lenses, and for some reason they couldn't finish the order. So they had Kiron finish the order using the same build drawings.) |
I think it is the most logical except i presume opposite (kiron main supplier and komine second) because the kiron version has the usual vivitar color coding (red marking)
Another possibility : vivitar bought to kiron and because of too big sales , bought a little stock to their "friends" of soligor and just changed the front ring .. i said that because the green color was distinctive of soligor and the red coding was distinctive of vivitar |
Actually the green is a distinctive color of the Komine made fixed mount lenses for Vivitar. I have some examples of that. 
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Big Dawg
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 2530
Location: Thach Alabama
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Big Dawg wrote:
According to the serial numbers these were produced 2 years apart. The Kiron in 1970 and the Komine in 1972.
Kiron 22 - 0 - 02 - 703
Komine 28 - 2 - 5 - 701
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PBFACTS
Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 568
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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PBFACTS wrote:
| Big Dawg wrote: |
According to the serial numbers these were produced 2 years apart. The Kiron in 1970 and the Komine in 1972.
Kiron 22 - 0 - 02 - 703
Komine 28 - 2 - 5 - 701 |
Perhaps designed by opcon = vivitar owned design ?
_________________
OM USER .. I KEEP/USE:
Om2 sp + T32 (grip/filter/zoom) + T8
+ Zuiko 16mm 3.5 / 55mm 1.2 / 65-200 4/ x1.4
+ Sigma 8mm 4.0 / 14mm 3.5 / 18-35 3.5-4.5
+ Tamron 35/105 2.8
+Tokina 150/500 5.6
+ Kiron 105/2.8 macro 1:1
+ Vivitar S1 90/180 falst field macro
+ 2x Doubler HR7
>>I SELL: OM10 + OM4ti
+ i sell: OM Md1 + Md 2 + Grip PowerPack + charger
+ i sell: OM Zuiko 24mm 2.8 / 28mm 3.5 / 50mm 1.8 / 50mm 1.4 / 50mm 3.5 macro / 35-70 3.6 / 35-105 3.5-4.5 / 75-150 4 / 500mm / 2xA
+ i sell: OM Kiron 28/105 3.2-4.5 / 1.5 converter
+ i sell: OM Makinon reflex 5.6/300 + Spector reflex (makinon) 500mm
+ i sell: OM Macro panagor extender 1:1
+ i sell: OM Sigma 16mm 2.8 fisheye (last version) / 21-35 3.5-4.2 ot/ 28-70 2.8 /1000mm mirror
+ i sell: Tamron 28-70 3.5-4.5 / 28-80 sp 3.5-4.2 / 28-135 sp 4-4.5 / /28-200 3.5 / 35-135 3..5-4.5 / 90mm sp macro 1:1 2.8
+ i sell: OM Soligor 2x doubler / x3 converte
+ i sell: Soligor FisheEye x0.15
+ i sell: OM Tokina 28/135 4-4.6 / 70/210 3.5 (= vivitar S1 v2)
+ i sell: OM Vivitar 28-70 3.5-4.8 / 28-90 s1 2.8-3.5 / 35-70 2.8-3.8 / 55/2.8 Macro 1:1 (komine) / 70-150 3.8 ot (kiron) / 75-150 ot 3.8 (tokina + 2x matched)
+ i sell : OM cosina 100-500 5.6/8 |
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