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sichko
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 2475
Location: South West UK
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 Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:59 am Post subject: Tokina RMC 3.5/17mm - first attempts |
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sichko wrote:
When I bought my first SLR (Nikon D40x) a little over a year ago it came with an 18-55mm zoom. Shortly afterwards I acquired the 55-200mm VR. I read recently that zooms are a bad idea for beginners since they instinctively "zoom in" as close as they can. Looking back at my pictures over the last year I think that that has been true. So using a fixed wide angle was something of a novelty. Here are some first attempts.
Shots were taken at the local marina. Tokina RMC 3.5/17mm (Nikon fit, auto aperture) on D40x, f/11; RAW capture with moderate PP BUT with some experimentation with PTLens; no sharpening except for use of Bicubic Sharper when resizing.
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Gurdie
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 997
Location: Finland
Expire: 2013-02-20
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:45 am Post subject: |
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Gurdie wrote:
Nice pictures! Are any of them wide open?
I agree with you about the zooms. I remember, when I first bought a wide-angle lens, a 28 mm, I was astonished, how big a difference it made in the composition, if you moved the camera around. I felt elated. And you had to be bolder... to get closer to the subject ...and still closer.
17 mm in a DX sensor camera isn´t very wide, unfortunately. Have you tried it with a film body? It´s totally a new world.
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Markku
Give me two hours a day of activity, and I'll take the other twenty-two in dreams.
― Salvador Dali
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DSG
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 544
Location: London, UK.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: |
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DSG wrote:
| Gurdie wrote: |
Nice pictures! Are any of them wide open?
I agree with you about the zooms. I remember, when I first bought a wide-angle lens, a 28 mm, I was astonished, how big a difference it made in the composition, if you moved the camera around. I felt elated. And you had to be bolder... to get closer to the subject ...and still closer.
17 mm in a DX sensor camera isn´t very wide, unfortunately. Have you tried it with a film body? It´s totally a new world. |
17mm is about 29mm equivalent on my 1.7 crop Sigma DSLR's, but for years the Tokina 17mm was the widest lens I had...Now I have a manual focus Sigma 14mm f3.5 rectalinear in M42 mount...Thats a smidgin under 24mm equivalent...Its impossible to get a wider rectalinear lens without shelling out big bucks for a Sigma AF 10-20mm EX or Sigma AF 12-24mm EX, but why even if I could afford it why would I want to do that?  |
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sichko
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 2475
Location: South West UK
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:21 am Post subject: |
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sichko wrote:
@Gurdie. They are all shot at f/11. I'm sure they would be very soft at wide open. Also the weather has been dreadful for many weeks with many grey days and lots of rain. So I took advantage of a little sunshine. I've never shot with a FF film camera. I think it would be expensive in terms of film, processing amd scanning. I think I must save for a D700.
In terms of getting closer, here's a statue
and closer..
I'm sure everyone who's had a wide-angle has done this sort of thing. But it's still exciting when you do it yourself.
@DSG My answer to your comments follow directly. I'd like to find out what I can do with something really wide. There's a thread on this forum where someone (sorry can't remember his name - I'll find it and put a link in) is using a 12 mm CV in the Tate Modern. The pictures are awesome.
EDIT spkennedy3000
http://forum.mflenses.com/12mm-tate-t9144,highlight,12mm+tate.html
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patrickh
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 8551
Location: Oregon
Expire: 2011-11-18
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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patrickh wrote:
John
I have the same lens on my D70 and get very similar results. A little soft on the edges, adequate saturation and contrast, but a great value lens. You have done a nice job with it.
@Alf - check what spkennedy does with WA. It can make a believer out of you, but it's a question of shooting style. For those who do not aspire to his technique/eye, your argument is right.
patrickh
_________________
DSLR: Nikon D300 Nikon D200 Nex 5N
MF Zooms: Kiron 28-85/3.5, 28-105/3.2, 75-150/3.5, Nikkor 50-135/3.5 AIS // MF Primes: Nikkor 20/4 AI, 24/2 AI, 28/2 AI, 28/2.8 AIS, 28/3.5 AI, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 AIS, 35/2.8 PC, 45/2.8 P, 50/1.4 AIS, 50/1.8 AIS, 50/2 AI, 55/2.8 AIS micro, 55/3.5 AI micro, 85/2 AI, 100/2,8 E, 105/1,8 AIS, 105/2,5 AIS, 135/2 AIS, 135/2.8 AIS, 200/4 AI, 200/4 AIS micro, 300/4.5 AI, 300/4.5 AI ED, Arsat 50/1.4, Kiron 28/2, Vivitar 28/2.5, Panagor 135/2.8, Tamron 28/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5 macro, Vivitar 90/2.5 macro (Tokina) Voigtlander 90/3.5 Vivitar 105/2.5 macro (Kiron) Kaleinar 100/2.8 AI Tamron 135/2.5, Vivitar 135/2.8CF, 200/3.5, Tokina 400/5,6
M42: Vivitar 28/2.5, Tamron 28/2.5, Formula5 28/2.8, Mamiya 28/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Flektogon 35/2.4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Takumar 35/3.5, Curtagon 35/4, Takumar 50/1.4, Volna-6 50/2.8 macro, Mamiya 50/1.4, CZJ Pancolar 50/1,8, Oreston 50/1.8, Takumar 50/2, Industar 50/3.5, Sears 55/1.4, Helios 58/2, Jupiter 85/2, Helios 85/1.5, Takumar 105/2.8, Steinheil macro 105/4.5, Tamron 135/2.5, Jupiter 135/4, CZ 135/4, Steinheil Culminar 135/4,5, Jupiter 135/3.5, Takumar 135/3.5, Tair 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, CZ 135/2.8, Taika 135/3.5, Takumar 150/4, Jupiter 200/4, Takumar 200/4
Exakta: Topcon 100/2.8(M42), 35/2.8, 58/1.8, 135/2.8, 135/2.8 (M42), Kyoei Acall 135/3.5
C/Y: Yashica 28/2.8, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, Zeiss Planar 50/1.4, Distagon 25/2.8
Hexanon: 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 40/1.8, 50/1.7, 52/1.8, 135/3.2, 135/3.5, 35-70/3.5, 200/3.5
P6 : Mir 38 65/3.5, Biometar 80/2.8, Kaleinar 150/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Minolta SR: 28/2.8, 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 45/2, 50/2, 58/1.4, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, 200/3.5
RF: Industar 53/2.8, Jupiter 8 50/2
Enlarg: Rodagon 50/5,6, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, Vario 44-52/4, 150/5.6 180/5.6 El Nikkor 50/2,8,63/2.8,75/4, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, 135/5.6 Schneider 60/5.6, 80/5.6, 80/4S,100/5.6S,105/5.6,135/5.6, 135/5.6S, 150/5.6S, Leica 95/4 |
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DSG
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 544
Location: London, UK.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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DSG wrote:
| patrickh wrote: |
John
I have the same lens on my D70 and get very similar results. A little soft on the edges, adequate saturation and contrast, but a great value lens. You have done a nice job with it.
@Alf - check what spkennedy does with WA. It can make a believer out of you, but it's a question of shooting style.
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It appears that he is using the CV 12mm on a FF film camera, not on a crop format digital so I would never be able to achieve wide angles like his unless I take several pics and stich them into panos  |
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DSG
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 544
Location: London, UK.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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DSG wrote:
| sichko wrote: |
@DSG My answer to your comments follow directly. I'd like to find out what I can do with something really wide. There's a thread on this forum where someone (sorry can't remember his name - I'll find it and put a link in) is using a 12 mm CV in the Tate Modern. The pictures are awesome.
EDIT spkennedy3000
http://forum.mflenses.com/12mm-tate-t9144,highlight,12mm+tate.html |
Thanks for pointing these out...They are indeed awesome but you have to remember that he is using that CV 12mm on a FF film camera not a crop format DSLR that are the only cameras that I and many others here have at their disposal, so I could never hope to achieve single shots as wide as his unless I stitch several single shots together to make panos.
And the Voigtlander 12mm is such a rare and exotic lens that its really not even worth mentioning it as valid manual lens option on here...Lets face it, you have more chance of getting struck by lightning than getting hold of one! |
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sichko
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 2475
Location: South West UK
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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sichko wrote:
The Voigtlander 5.6/12mm is available from Robert White ~ 400 GBP. I'm not sure what camera you can use it on but it's accessible.
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DSG
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 544
Location: London, UK.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: |
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DSG wrote:
| sichko wrote: |
| The Voigtlander 5.6/12mm is available from Robert White ~ 400 GBP. I'm not sure what camera you can use it on but it's accessible. |
Thanks for the info...Its newness explains why I had'nt heard much about it and why therefore thought it was so rare. 
£400 is a lot of money to pay for a manual focus lens though 
The most I have ever paid for any of my lenses is £335 (on ebay including postage) for my Carl Zeiss 85mm f1.4 Planar T*, but thats a stellar portrait/pano lens not an ultra wide angle that might not get as much use.
I would'nt mind buying a cheaper used one though. |
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dickb
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Posts: 821
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
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dickb wrote:
The original version of the Voigtlaender 12mm Heliar is in Leica screw thread, M39. Suitable cameras other than film using ones are the Leica M8 and Epson RD1. With M39-M42 adapters you can use this one on any other as well, but you lose infinity focus and turn it into a fascinating macro lens.
More practical is the rarer Nikon F mount version, to be used on cameras like the Nikon F and F2 with permanent mirror lock. I have been wondering whether using this one on a LiveView DSLR would work, with the mirror taped up. The considerable cost of this lens have kept me from getting on to experiment with, so far at least. European private buyers have to consider that Robert White's prices do not include 17% VAT. |
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DSG
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 544
Location: London, UK.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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DSG wrote:
I just discovered that there are two versions of the Tokina RMC 17mm f3.5...The TL and non TL versions 
I have always called mine the TL version because it has a red TL mark on the front and I just assumed they all had the mark but today someone posted me two ebay auction links asking which of two different examples of Canon FD mount Tokina 17/3.5's would be the best for him to buy...Only one of them had the TL mark.
After examining the auction pics for the serial numbers of each lens it was very easy to see that the one with the oldest serial number, ie: 7701243 had no TL mark and the one with the newer serial number, ie: 8201192 had the TL mark.
My one also has the TL mark and its even newer than that last one with a serial number of: 9012714.
So thanks to his enquiry I think we can now say for sure that the
older versions of the Tokina 17mm f3.5 can be easily identified, even if the serial number is not known, by the absence of a TL mark and the newer ones by the addition of the TL mark. |
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patrickh
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 8551
Location: Oregon
Expire: 2011-11-18
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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patrickh wrote:
DSG Used ones on ebay probably go for more than the retail price.
patrickh
_________________
DSLR: Nikon D300 Nikon D200 Nex 5N
MF Zooms: Kiron 28-85/3.5, 28-105/3.2, 75-150/3.5, Nikkor 50-135/3.5 AIS // MF Primes: Nikkor 20/4 AI, 24/2 AI, 28/2 AI, 28/2.8 AIS, 28/3.5 AI, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 AIS, 35/2.8 PC, 45/2.8 P, 50/1.4 AIS, 50/1.8 AIS, 50/2 AI, 55/2.8 AIS micro, 55/3.5 AI micro, 85/2 AI, 100/2,8 E, 105/1,8 AIS, 105/2,5 AIS, 135/2 AIS, 135/2.8 AIS, 200/4 AI, 200/4 AIS micro, 300/4.5 AI, 300/4.5 AI ED, Arsat 50/1.4, Kiron 28/2, Vivitar 28/2.5, Panagor 135/2.8, Tamron 28/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5 macro, Vivitar 90/2.5 macro (Tokina) Voigtlander 90/3.5 Vivitar 105/2.5 macro (Kiron) Kaleinar 100/2.8 AI Tamron 135/2.5, Vivitar 135/2.8CF, 200/3.5, Tokina 400/5,6
M42: Vivitar 28/2.5, Tamron 28/2.5, Formula5 28/2.8, Mamiya 28/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Flektogon 35/2.4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Takumar 35/3.5, Curtagon 35/4, Takumar 50/1.4, Volna-6 50/2.8 macro, Mamiya 50/1.4, CZJ Pancolar 50/1,8, Oreston 50/1.8, Takumar 50/2, Industar 50/3.5, Sears 55/1.4, Helios 58/2, Jupiter 85/2, Helios 85/1.5, Takumar 105/2.8, Steinheil macro 105/4.5, Tamron 135/2.5, Jupiter 135/4, CZ 135/4, Steinheil Culminar 135/4,5, Jupiter 135/3.5, Takumar 135/3.5, Tair 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, CZ 135/2.8, Taika 135/3.5, Takumar 150/4, Jupiter 200/4, Takumar 200/4
Exakta: Topcon 100/2.8(M42), 35/2.8, 58/1.8, 135/2.8, 135/2.8 (M42), Kyoei Acall 135/3.5
C/Y: Yashica 28/2.8, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, Zeiss Planar 50/1.4, Distagon 25/2.8
Hexanon: 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 40/1.8, 50/1.7, 52/1.8, 135/3.2, 135/3.5, 35-70/3.5, 200/3.5
P6 : Mir 38 65/3.5, Biometar 80/2.8, Kaleinar 150/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Minolta SR: 28/2.8, 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 45/2, 50/2, 58/1.4, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, 200/3.5
RF: Industar 53/2.8, Jupiter 8 50/2
Enlarg: Rodagon 50/5,6, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, Vario 44-52/4, 150/5.6 180/5.6 El Nikkor 50/2,8,63/2.8,75/4, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, 135/5.6 Schneider 60/5.6, 80/5.6, 80/4S,100/5.6S,105/5.6,135/5.6, 135/5.6S, 150/5.6S, Leica 95/4 |
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DSG
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 544
Location: London, UK.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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DSG wrote:
| patrickh wrote: |
DSG Used ones on ebay probably go for more than the retail price.
patrickh |
Well only if the retail price was about £50...They dont go for much more than that and I only paid £10 for mine. |
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 16643
Location: Weinheim, Germany
Expire: 2021-03-09
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
I have two "red TL" versions #8909xxx and #8501xxx, both Nikon mount, one with the Nikon ears, one without (the newest one - no-one needs that anyway anymore)
So what does that imply now?
_________________
Klaus - Admin
"S'il vient a point, me souviendra" [Thomas Bohier (1460-1523)]
http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums my albums using various lenses
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV BLOG
http://www.travelmeetsfood.com/blog Food + Travel BLOG
https://galeriafotografia.com Architecture + Drone photography
Currently most FAV lens(es):
X80QF f3.2/80mm
Hypergon f11/26mm
ELCAN UV f5.6/52mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f4/60mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f2/62mm
Lomo Уфар-12 f2.5/41mm
Lomo Зуфар-2 f4.0/350mm
Lomo ZIKAR-1A f1.2/100mm
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Zeiss UV-Sonnar f4.3/105mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f1.8/45mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f4.1/94mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f2.8/100mm
Steinheil Quarzobjektiv f1.8/50mm
Pentax Quartz Takumar f3.5/85mm
Carl Zeiss Jena UV-Objektiv f4/60mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha II f1.1/90mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha I f2.8/200mm
COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
COASTAL OPTICS f4.5/105mm UV-Micro-Apo
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
Rodenstock UV-Rodagon f5.6/60mm + 105mm + 150mm
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DSG
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 544
Location: London, UK.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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DSG wrote:
| kds315* wrote: |
I have two "red TL" versions #8909xxx and #8501xxx, both Nikon mount, one with the Nikon ears, one without (the newest one - no-one needs that anyway anymore)
So what does that imply now? |
Only that your lenses are late TL versions, not early non-TL versions...They probably started the TL series around serial 8000000 onwards. |
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 16643
Location: Weinheim, Germany
Expire: 2021-03-09
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
Any clue what the "TL" stands for - for "Technically Limited" photographers only?
_________________
Klaus - Admin
"S'il vient a point, me souviendra" [Thomas Bohier (1460-1523)]
http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums my albums using various lenses
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV BLOG
http://www.travelmeetsfood.com/blog Food + Travel BLOG
https://galeriafotografia.com Architecture + Drone photography
Currently most FAV lens(es):
X80QF f3.2/80mm
Hypergon f11/26mm
ELCAN UV f5.6/52mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f4/60mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f2/62mm
Lomo Уфар-12 f2.5/41mm
Lomo Зуфар-2 f4.0/350mm
Lomo ZIKAR-1A f1.2/100mm
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Zeiss UV-Sonnar f4.3/105mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f1.8/45mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f4.1/94mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f2.8/100mm
Steinheil Quarzobjektiv f1.8/50mm
Pentax Quartz Takumar f3.5/85mm
Carl Zeiss Jena UV-Objektiv f4/60mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha II f1.1/90mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha I f2.8/200mm
COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
COASTAL OPTICS f4.5/105mm UV-Micro-Apo
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
Rodenstock UV-Rodagon f5.6/60mm + 105mm + 150mm
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DSG
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 544
Location: London, UK.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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DSG wrote:
| kds315* wrote: |
| Any clue what the "TL" stands for - for "Technically Limited" photographers only? |
Tokina Lens?
Tasty Lens?
Tokina Lenses?
Total Luxury?
Totally Liberating?
Totally Ludicrous?
Tits-oot for the-Lads?
??? |
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