Tokina ATX 80-200mm F2.8 SD focus problems

mavtop · Joined: 10 Apr 2016 Posts: 32

Hi all,

i was a lurker for years of this forum, but now i have a problem with a manual len, so i ask to you experts.

Monthes ago i bought a Tokina ATX 80-200mm F2.8 in Canon FD mount, i had already the Tokina 80-200mm F4, the Minolta 70-210mm F4 and Vivitar Series 1 70-210 F3.5, but wanted to have a F2.8 lens, so i found a decent copy and bought it.

The len seems perfect, i can't see nothing wrong with it, mirrors are cleaned, not fog inside, nothing.

Today i had some time to test it, so I used a fotga canon fd to nex adapter that i used for other canon fd lens (maybe i have also another Canon-FD to NEX adapter to try) on my new Sony A6000 camera.

Trying it discovered that:

1) at F2.8 it is very soft (against all the reviews i read) and it is very sharp from > F4 (it has half stop after F4 and one after F4 seems perfect at 80mm)

2) i taken some pictures with the FL 80mm and discovered that i could put in (almost) perfect focus objects at about 60-70cm of distance and also less, while on the lens the minimal focus point is around 1,8m

3) i taken some pictures with the FL 80mm and i couldn't focus on object at 2-2,5m of distance (tried to use the indication marks on the len and then turned all the focus ring from minimal to infinity with no luck)

4) i zoomed between 80 and 200mm in the middle and i could focus on the same object at 2-2,5m of distance.

While i know there are some adapters that can't focus to infinity (for few tollerance errors) i never know of this problem, minimal focus distance is 1,8m in all the reviews and specs that i can find on the web while i can focus instead at <60cm of distance, but not at 2m at FL 80mm.

Do you know how to fix this problem ?

If you need some test shots, i have them, or you ask me what you would like to have shot and which focal lens.

I suspect someone opened the len and maybe put some mirror in the opposite way when closed it.

For you this kind of error, can also bring soft focus at F2.8 ?

If someone know how to check my problem, let me know.

If someone know how to disassembly the len, let me know.

I will try to find the second Canon FD to Nex adapter i have, and i will check if with that too i have the same problems.

Thanks for all your help.
mav_top

mavtop · Joined: 10 Apr 2016 Posts: 32

For people that doesn't know the len

I uploaded some pictures of my len, you can read the minimal focus distance of 1.8 meters or 6 feet

#1

#2

#3

#4

#5

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

mav_top, it sounds to me like your lens has problems, perhaps more than one.

I have the Tamron version of this lens -- the 80-200/2.8. And I had problems with mine too. Shortly after I bought it, I noticed where it would only focus on objects up close (say 2 meters and closer), and then not too long after than, one day I picked it up and I heard it make a >clunk!< noise. I looked into the lens, only to discover that a large inner group had come apart and fallen down into the lens. I was able to remove the front element and screw that big group back into place, which fixed things.

So, I recommend that you inspect the internals of your lens, see if any of the groups are moving differently than they should, listen for rattles, inspect the push-pull for too much flex or wobble, etc. Doing so might reveal something.

mavtop · Joined: 10 Apr 2016 Posts: 32

for now i only removed the external element, it was so easy, just rotating on the red stripe and it permit to remove the first external mirror easily.

I inspected the inner element and it seems ok, but i don't know how to disassembly it.

The push-poll zoom seems ok also if it creeps down if i keep the len vertically, but i suppose it is normal with time passing.

I suspect i have to open the len, but if i can't find some instructions or someone that has the same len and know how to do i will have to keep it in the shelf and it would be a mess for me, i wanted really use it in future in low light, for concert or similar events.

I will have to wait for some help.

Thanks for now cooltouch
mav_top

fwcetus · Joined: 12 Jun 2015 Posts: 303 Location: New England

calvin83 · Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7555 Location: Hong Kong

This F2.8 zoom is not bad of its time but don't expect miracle when used wide open.
https://www.pentaxuser.com/forum/topic/tokina-atx-mf-80-200-f-2-8-43762#comm476806

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

marcusBMG · Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1316 Location: Conwy N Wales

Gotta figure out these lenses. I recently acquired the tokina made viv series 1 70-210mm, bit of fungus on the front elements. No prob! Three grub screws were obviously what needed to be loosened to remove the front assembly. Only they weren't. The front elements came out with just the removal of the nameplate. The grub screws were locking the infinity focus adjust. Well it's all back together, and focusses to (past!) infinity but its still not quite right.
I read somewhere that the tok 80-200 f2,8 dissassembles relatively easily... presumably a previous owner was cleaning or st, but also tripped over the infinity adjust...

WolverineX · Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:24 pm Post subject:

because you can focus only close , one of the glass elements is probably turned wrong way. probably someone cleaned the lens and reassembled it wrong. as for softness wide open, use the lens hood that you have there

marcusBMG · Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1316 Location: Conwy N Wales

WNG555 · Joined: 18 Dec 2014 Posts: 784 Location: Arrid-Zone-A, USA

calvin83 · Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7555 Location: Hong Kong

You can find the drawing of the lens scheme if you have the box or here Click here to see on Ebay .

TrueLoveOne · Expire: 2013-12-24

Here's a video on how to disassemble the Tokina 2.8/80-200 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ0XcErf9OE

It's not the most complicated lens.

This is (or should be) a very good lens, mine is not perfect because it has a slightly hazy element, but that does not keep it from making very nice pictures! Here's a topic on mine: http://forum.mflenses.com/tokina-at-x-sd-2-8-80-200-hazy-element-t74276.html

Cheers, RenÃ©.

mavtop · Joined: 10 Apr 2016 Posts: 32

I thank you all, maybe i found a video of Nelson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ0XcErf9OE that will help me to disassembly the front element up to the middle element.

I found something strange in his video, he remove the 3 screws before rotating the red stripe and he got a block with i suppose 2 lens together.

When i yesterday rotated the red stripe i got the ring with the len info away (that you can see from front of the len), and below it there was a single mirror, that was just against on the ring, then putting the len downward the mirror got out, but it was just the single mirror element and not a block with plastic with two lens.

But maybe i had to remove the 3 screws before rotating the red stripe.

I hope to have time today to check it again.

Anyway i see around video and photo shots at f2.8 and maybe they are soft but not like mine, mine has like a glow at f2.8 and i suspect someone didn't mount the mirrors in the right position after cleaning it.

I will update maybe later with some shots taken yesterday just to show you the glow i see at f2.8

mav_top

mavtop · Joined: 10 Apr 2016 Posts: 32

Thanks Rene' i found the video too and posted without reading your message, sorry about it

i will give a read of your topic

mav_top

mavtop · Joined: 10 Apr 2016 Posts: 32

Just to show you the actual status of my len i will post some images i taken yesterday before i discovered the focus problem, if i zoom at 100% the F2.8 shots i can't find a sharp focus point and i see some glow, maybe are my eyes Smile

135mm at F2.8 iso 500 1/500sec indoor object at 120 cm focus on the middle
#1

80mm at F2.8 iso 400 1/500sec outdoor object at 70 cm focus on the middle
#2

80mm at F2.8 iso 500 1/640sec outdoor object at 70 cm focus on the middle yellow tongue
#3

80mm at F2.8 iso 500 1/640sec outdoor object at 70 cm focus on the top left yellow tongue
#4

100mm at F2.8 iso 1250 1/200sec indoor object at 70 cm focus on the middle vertical lines
#5

80mm at F4 iso 3200 1/200sec indoor object at 70 cm focus on the middle vertical lines
#6

80mm at F5.6 iso 3200 1/200sec indoor object at 70 cm focus on the middle vertical lines
#7

80mm at F8 iso 2500 1/125sec indoor object at 60 cm focus on the middle vertical lines
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80mm at F2.8 iso 2500 1/125sec indoor object at 60 cm focus on AVVENIRE VIAGGI
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80mm at F4 iso 2500 1/200sec indoor object at 60 cm focus on AVVENIRE VIAGGI
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100mm at F4 iso 2500 1/200sec indoor object at 60 cm focus on AVVENIRE VIAGGI
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100mm at F4 iso 2500 1/200sec indoor object at 60 cm focus on AVVENIRE VIAGGI
#12

mavtop · Joined: 10 Apr 2016 Posts: 32

the last one from yesterday that i couldn't upload , always errors up to i resized at 80% of the original size

135mm at F2.8 iso 3200 1/200sec indoor object a 2-2,5 meters focus on GRAND CANYON
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marcusBMG · Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1316 Location: Conwy N Wales

That IQ is bad enough to suggest WolverineW could be right.

mavtop · Joined: 10 Apr 2016 Posts: 32

Infact i suspect that something is wrong.

Hope to have some time later today to check elements behind the front element, but i will have to find good screwdrivers to remove the 3 screws, without removing those 3 screws i can't go on.

I bought a spanner wrench some time ago because i want to fix a Rokkor 300mm F4.5 that seems have some haze inside.

So now i miss only the screwdrivers, i seen the 3 screws are really tiny.

mav_top

Gardener · Joined: 22 Sep 2013 Posts: 950 Location: USA

mavtop · Joined: 10 Apr 2016 Posts: 32

Hi Gardener and thanks for your reply,

i too suspect that it will not be so easy to do, for this i asked your help.

Maybe i found a diagram of the len's elements also if only a part of them, i will try to check all i can and i will clean all the mirrors i can manage to get out from len.

If i will be able to fix it, good, else i will sell it (also if i will not be happy to do, it is my only F2.8 zoom i have).

Yes i know that quality of the zoom are not good, but for that age this len was one of the best (maybe after the tamron), more i found around the web but also in this forum shots taken at f2.8 that are a lot better than mine.

I know that some adapter can have 1-2mm in more without respecting the standard, but i don't think it can moves the focus from a minimal of 1,8 meter at 50-60 cm (3 times less than original), anyway i will check my other FD-nex adapter when i will find it (i have 12 boxes filled with manual lens, adapter, teleconverters, flashes, never had time to divide items, but i will have to do in the next future).

To clean mirrors, i have bought alchool isoprophyl at 99%, how i have to use it ? I read someone use 50% of it and 50% di ammoniaca. I was thinking of use it with 50% of bi-distillated water, do you think is the right way ?

Let me know and thanks to all again.

mav_top

marcusBMG · Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1316 Location: Conwy N Wales

mavtop · Joined: 10 Apr 2016 Posts: 32

Perfect marcusBMG, that is that i aspected from a lens like this, F2.8 little soft, but then really any other F-stop really sharp.

Thanks for posting your image, this is the quality i aspect from this len and not that i'm seeing now from it in my shots, using a 24MP APS-C camera like the Sony A6000 then i would use all its resolution (i know i'm using all the center part of it for the crop factor).

mav_top

mavtop · Joined: 10 Apr 2016 Posts: 32

I need some help from someone has this len.

I saw the video, but i have an issue, after removing the 3 screws on the side, and after rotating the red stripes, i got access to a single len

# This is the single len

and not to a pack with 2 lenses, infact in the video Nelson get a block while i get a single len, and below it, there is another len that i can't remove, but there are stripes before the len, but i can't see a place (holes or lines) where to put the wrench tool.

# The len below the first removed

# The stripes before the 2nd len

I tried with my fingers to rotate the stripes manually but nothing happened.

I don't see points where to put the wrench tool.

If you have any hints or ideas.

Thanks
mav_top

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

I see a pair of slots for a spanner.