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The rare Vivitar 250mm f/4.5 Pre-Set Lens.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
casualcollector wrote:
Russ wrote:
Gee, I've lost my credibility in Viv and Kirons,,, Sad


Well, Kid... not so much a loss as a credibility gap. Just kidding you, Russ. It may well be from Kino. The styling cues sure seem to distance it from typical Kino made Vivitars.


Casual

I was just joking earlier. however, do you own any early Panagors? They look very similar...


PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Russ wrote:
casualcollector wrote:
Russ wrote:
Gee, I've lost my credibility in Viv and Kirons,,, Sad


Well, Kid... not so much a loss as a credibility gap. Just kidding you, Russ. It may well be from Kino. The styling cues sure seem to distance it from typical Kino made Vivitars.


Casual

I was just joking earlier. however, do you own any early Panagors? They look very similar...


You've lost no credibility with me...You and Bill and some others have been my go-to guys on this stuff and continue to be so. I'm just saying that there is still nothing to absolutly say these are panagor made. I lean that way myself but Bill's theory has some relevence as well.
We may never know for sure but then again there may be documentation hid in a file somwhere that might give the answer some day. Thank all of you for your interest and input on this. Now lets all see if there is a series of these. They are very well made and quite good in the IQ department. Well worth collecting when one shows up.

A few months ago I started collecting the Chrome nose series not knowing if they actually made that series. I've been fortunate to find the full series and they ARE verry good lens. Again...Well worth collecting and using.

By the way..I have a 135mm Chrome nose that has a stuck aperture..If one of you would like to have it I can send it free gratis and free shipping. PM me if you'd like it to play with. It is a duplicate and is not needed by me.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Russ wrote:
Casual
I was just joking earlier. however, do you own any early Panagors? They look very similar...


Russ, I've been following your posts for years. I'll plead ignorance on the Panagors. I don't recall ever seeing one in the flesh. I do have 1 Soligor, 1 Hanimar and 1 PROmatic that I think originated at Kino. I'll get them posted on The Casual Collector in the near future.

And... I won't rule out Kino as the maker of Dawg's 250.

Bill


PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Got #69576.

From the dual aperture ring system and the black-silver design, I'd venture to guess that this lens dates back to the late 50s or early 60s. Early Takumars of that period also had dual aperture rings and black-silver design and they were discontinued in the early 60s. The Super-Tak 50/1.4 was made in 1964 and was all black and already had auto aperture. So the numbering system doesn't apply (it's only for post 1970) and I don't believe the first two digits represent the manufacturing year either - 1969 is too recent for a lens with dual aperture rings (I know Russian lenses kept that style for a long time, but they're another story).

Also, I found what seems like a later version of it mentioned here. That one might be made by Tokina if the serial number rules apply. This page also says the later version is by Tokina.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
casualcollector wrote:
Russ wrote:
Casual
I was just joking earlier. however, do you own any early Panagors? They look very similar...


Russ, I've been following your posts for years. I'll plead ignorance on the Panagors. I don't recall ever seeing one in the flesh. I do have 1 Soligor, 1 Hanimar and 1 PROmatic that I think originated at Kino. I'll get them posted on The Casual Collector in the near future.

And... I won't rule out Kino as the maker of Dawg's 250.

Bill



Bill

I'll have to take snaps of my early Panagors for all to see. Thanks for the reminder.


A few of my Vivitars, Panagors and Kirons.

Russ


PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Laurentiu Cristofor wrote:
Got #69576.

From the dual aperture ring system and the black-silver design, I'd venture to guess that this lens dates back to the late 50s or early 60s. Early Takumars of that period also had dual aperture rings and black-silver design and they were discontinued in the early 60s. The Super-Tak 50/1.4 was made in 1964 and was all black and already had auto aperture. So the numbering system doesn't apply (it's only for post 1970) and I don't believe the first two digits represent the manufacturing year either - 1969 is too recent for a lens with dual aperture rings (I know Russian lenses kept that style for a long time, but they're another story).

Also, I found what seems like a later version of it mentioned here. That one might be made by Tokina if the serial number rules apply. This page also says the later version is by Tokina.


That one (in the first URL)is a Vivitar T4 lens made by Tokina. Like this one.


Vivitar sold Preset lenses from 1966 to 1977 and very few fell into the standard serial number code. The 1977 model 400mm f/5.6 has a 77 serial number and the 85-205 preset Zoom I have has a 228XXX serial number that says it was made by Kiron but could be 1968 or 1978 as presets were still being sold as late as 1977 anyway as basic or inexpensive beginner lens.




PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Big Dawg wrote:

That one (in the first URL)is a Vivitar T4 lens made by Tokina. Like this one.


Yes - looking at it now - it has a similar style of tripod mount as the 250mm.

Big Dawg wrote:

Vivitar sold Preset lenses from 1966 to 1977 and very few fell into the standard serial number code. The 1977 model 400mm f/5.6 has a 77 serial number and the 85-205 preset Zoom I have has a 228XXX serial number that says it was made by Kiron but could be 1968 or 1978 as presets were still being sold as late as 1977 anyway as basic or inexpensive beginner lens.


Didn't know they were making presets for so long. I didn't notice many presets from Vivitar before. Were there other manufacturers coming up with preset lenses in the 70s or was Vivitar the only one?


PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Laurentiu Cristofor wrote:
Big Dawg wrote:

That one (in the first URL)is a Vivitar T4 lens made by Tokina. Like this one.


Yes - looking at it now - it has a similar style of tripod mount as the 250mm.

Big Dawg wrote:

Vivitar sold Preset lenses from 1966 to 1977 and very few fell into the standard serial number code. The 1977 model 400mm f/5.6 has a 77 serial number and the 85-205 preset Zoom I have has a 228XXX serial number that says it was made by Kiron but could be 1968 or 1978 as presets were still being sold as late as 1977 anyway as basic or inexpensive beginner lens.


Didn't know they were making presets for so long. I didn't notice many presets from Vivitar before. Were there other manufacturers coming up with preset lenses in the 70s or was Vivitar the only one?


Meyer Gorlitz and Pentacon to name a couple. The Meyer Gorlitz 300 f/4 I owned a few months ago is a superb example of one.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Could it possibly be an early Tamron lens? It has features from the Adaptamatic line (silver rings, windows) but with a t-mount like the earlier lenses. According to Adaptall-2.org there was a 250/4.5 Tamron T-mount lens...could it possibly be an in-between model?


PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Big Dawg wrote:

Meyer Gorlitz and Pentacon to name a couple.


I meant Japanese manufacturers. Meyer/Pentacon were from East Germany, so I'm not surprised that they, like the Russian factories, kept old designs in production as long as they could.


PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Concerning Tamron -

Most third party makers of the time had a 250/4.5. I have several. Soligor at least considered it a standard focal length and sold versions of a 250 preset from at least four manufacturers, including Tamron.


PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ManualFocus-G wrote:
Could it possibly be an early Tamron lens? It has features from the Adaptamatic line (silver rings, windows) but with a t-mount like the earlier lenses. According to Adaptall-2.org there was a 250/4.5 Tamron T-mount lens...could it possibly be an in-between model?


Interesting - I never checked the older lenses from Tamron on adaptall-2.org. There is actually a link showing a photo of the T-mount 250/4.5 lens: the shape of the front is the only thing I see in common; otherwise, the aperture and focusing are different and the Tamron takes 62mm filters while the Vivitar takes 67mm.

Most of these Tamron lenses appear to have been discontinued sometime before 1969.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:04 pm    Post subject: vivitar 250mm f4.5 two window Reply with quote
I think I have solved the mystery as to the maker of this lens. It is very different than anything made by Tokina, Kiron or Komine for Vivitar. After some lucky research I found the Norita Noritar 250mm f4.5. Go to this page:

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/norita-noritar-250mm-telephoto-lens-119600065

even the knob for the tripod mount looks the same!


PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow ! You found it !

It stands to reason why this is not more common. Norita seems to have made their lenses in only very small numbers.

A rare lens in every way.

I hope you still have it Big Dawg.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:24 pm    Post subject: vivitar 250mm f4.5 two window Reply with quote
I would guess that all of the Vivitar lenses that have the same cosmetics as the 250mm f4.5 "two-window" were manufactured by Norita. I never suspected that Vivitar used Norita as a supplier. It is my understanding, from what I have read, that Norita optics were quite good. Norita and Kyoei were small optical houses. I have the Kyoei (Petri Orrikor badged) 180mm f3.5; it is very sharp with excellent color, contrast and sharpness. I wonder if the Norita 250mm is equally as good. I've never seen images made with the lens. The images Big Dawg posted were made with the Vivitar/Tokina 250mm f4.5.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: vivitar 250mm f4.5 two window Reply with quote
amg5050 wrote:
I think I have solved the mystery as to the maker of this lens. It is very different than anything made by Tokina, Kiron or Komine for Vivitar. After some lucky research I found the Norita Noritar 250mm f4.5. Go to this page:

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/norita-noritar-250mm-telephoto-lens-119600065

even the knob for the tripod mount looks the same!


Great find! Thanks for sharing!


PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:17 am    Post subject: Re: vivitar 250mm f4.5 two window Reply with quote
amg5050 wrote:
I wonder if the Norita 250mm is equally as good. I've never seen images made with the lens.


I think I posted these in the other thread about this lens, but here they are again. They were taken last year. Light was not that good. Both are at f/5.6 and ISO 800:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/laurentiucristofor/5862354522


http://www.flickr.com/photos/laurentiucristofor/5862354448


PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:15 pm    Post subject: Vivitar 250mm f4.5 Reply with quote
Well, be careful of what you ask for; you may get it! Bought the Vivitar branded version of the Norita Noritar 250mm f4.5 last night. I should receive the lens in about one week. I will compare it to my Tokina made Soligor/Vivitar 250mm f4.5 T4 lens.


PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
What luck !


PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I finally managed to obtain a copy of the Vivitar 250mm f/4.5 lens. I've got one that's in like-new condition and looks identical to the one in Big Dawg's photos at the beginning of this thread with one exception. Mine is an M42 mount, not a T mount. Serial number is 68527. I've checked and doubled-checked and I'm certain it's actually an M42 and not a T mount with bad threads that just happens to fit an M42 (I've actually had that happen). I get proper infinity focus mounted on my Vivitar 220/SL and the threads have the right pitch for M42. So the question is - are we sure the copy in Big Dawg's photos is really a T mount and not an M42? Were any test shots done to confirm infinity focus? Does anyone else have a copy of this lens and can you confirm whether yours is T or M42 mount?

I just got it this evening and only have a crummy cell phone pic right now, which you can see here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/steevithak/7984486552/in/photostream

But I'll be shooting proper photos of it soon, along with plenty of test shots with it, so I can document it over on camera-wiki.org

Incidentally, I also managed to round up some pretty good pics of the Norita Noritar 250mm f/4.5 version of this lens for the camera-wiki.org article on that lens:

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Norita_Noritar_250mm_f/4.5


PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
steevithak wrote:
I finally managed to obtain a copy of the Vivitar 250mm f/4.5 lens. I've got one that's in like-new condition and looks identical to the one in Big Dawg's photos at the beginning of this thread with one exception. Mine is an M42 mount, not a T mount. Serial number is 68527. I've checked and doubled-checked and I'm certain it's actually an M42 and not a T mount with bad threads that just happens to fit an M42 (I've actually had that happen). I get proper infinity focus mounted on my Vivitar 220/SL and the threads have the right pitch for M42. So the question is - are we sure the copy in Big Dawg's photos is really a T mount and not an M42? Were any test shots done to confirm infinity focus? Does anyone else have a copy of this lens and can you confirm whether yours is T or M42 mount?

I just got it this evening and only have a crummy cell phone pic right now, which you can see here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/steevithak/7984486552/in/photostream

But I'll be shooting proper photos of it soon, along with plenty of test shots with it, so I can document it over on camera-wiki.org

Incidentally, I also managed to round up some pretty good pics of the Norita Noritar 250mm f/4.5 version of this lens for the camera-wiki.org article on that lens:

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Norita_Noritar_250mm_f/4.5


Mine was a T mount. The early version T-mount with the three set screws to hold the adapter on the end of the lens. The later versions of T-mount had M42 threads but a different thread pitch than the normal M42 lens mount. If you look at the photos in the beginning of this thread you'll see the set screws that hold the T-mount adapter on. And yes I removed the adapter to be sure it was a T-mount. I no longer own this lens so I'd have a hard time to show you the mount removed. I'd almost bet yours is the same.

Yes I shot some photos with it and infinity focus was spot on. Actually it shot very well with great colors and was sharp. Quite light weight for it's size and focal length.

I'll be looking forward to the photos, especially the mount end of the lens.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Big Dawg wrote:

Mine was a T mount. The early version T-mount with the three set screws to hold the adapter on the end of the lens. The later versions of T-mount had M42 threads but a different thread pitch than the normal M42 lens mount. If you look at the photos in the beginning of this thread you'll see the set screws that hold the T-mount adapter on. And yes I removed the adapter to be sure it was a T-mount. I no longer own this lens so I'd have a hard time to show you the mount removed. I'd almost bet yours is the same.

Yes I shot some photos with it and infinity focus was spot on. Actually it shot very well with great colors and was sharp. Quite light weight for it's size and focal length.

I'll be looking forward to the photos, especially the mount end of the lens.


Thanks! I'm really intrigued by this as it means there may be two Vivitar versions of the lens. The photos of the Norita badged lens I found clearly show an adapter on the back but it's impossible to tell for sure if it's some kind of T adapter or an M42 adapter. Looks like I need to track down some advertising or marketing info, or maybe a magazine review on this one.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
steevithak wrote:
Mine is an M42 mount, not a T mount.


Mine is a T mount with a Pentax K mount fitted on it. I can partially see the "T/PK" and "Japan" writing between the adapter and the lens. Looks like the adapter is secured with three screws. The T mount piece also has three screws.

Are you sure your lens didn't come with an M42 adapter fit over the T one? Your photo showing the lens from the front does not help. Try taking a side shot of the mount end.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've posted a set of photos of my M42 mount version of the lens, including close-up shots of the mount next to another M42 lens and a T mount lens for comparison. To answer a previous question, the 250mm preset I've got does not have any type of screw-on adapter mounted on it. In fact, as purchased, it had a Vemar M42 mount auto 2x converter attached. I hope to find time to shoot some test photos with this lens in the next week or two and will post a link once those are up. Meanwhile, here are the photos of the lens itself:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/steevithak/sets/72157631607150595/

-Steve


PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is indeed an oddity.
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