Home

Please support mflenses.com if you need any graphic related work order it from us, click on above banner to order!
SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

The curious Schneider Kreuznach Componon 80 mm f/4
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Home   Manual Focus Lenses
View previous topic :: View next topic  


PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2024 11:35 pm    Post subject: The curious Schneider Kreuznach Componon 80 mm f/4 Reply with quote
I can't (and won't) claim to be very knowledgeable when it comes to manual focus lenses, and even within the more narrow niche area of enlarging and industrial lenses, I've done quite some research in, there are still innumerous little details and products which I'm completely unfamiliar with. But from time to time I notice something while browsing the internet which jumps out at me like a four-leaf clover in a patch of regular ones... I immediately know something looks different with this one and this was such a case:

The Schneider Kreuznach Componon 80 mm f/4 (silver chrome) enlarging lens





I'm of course familiar with the small Componon 80 mm f/5.6 in several versions, the Durst variants, the Componon-S 80 mm f/4 and f/5.6 and the WA Componon 80 mm f/5.6 (in two variants). Finally there's also the M-Componon 80 mm f/4. But this one looked different.

It was in a pretty worn down state, but I was very curious if my suspicion was right, and this was another variant of Componon I had not heard of before. Turns out, it is!

This version is significantly bigger than the small and very common silver chrome 80 mm f/5.6 version and it likely uses a different optical design as well. The dimensions of the front and rear element actually reminded me more of a different Schneider Kreuznach taking lens, the Xenotar 80 mm f/2.8. So I've compared the reflections of these two lenses and they match pretty much exactly. I'm pretty sure that version of Componon is actually a stopped-down variant of that particular medium format lens and thus a 5/4 optical design, known for its very pleasant rendering.

So here are a couple of shots made with this unusual lens:

















If you have any additional information, your own experiences with that lens or further questions, I'm all ears!


PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It has wonderful rendering.
Is it possibly a bellows lens?
Tom


PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
It has wonderful rendering.
Is it possibly a bellows lens?
Tom


Thanks - glad you like it!

I guess yes and no...

No, because Componons have usuallly been intended as enlarging lenses at that time as far as I know and also a M39 or M42 thread would make a lot more sense for a dedicated bellows lens.

Yes, because the thread (which is the 32.5x0.5 mm thread which fits a Copal-0 lens board) is very versatile and can be used on all kinds of systems with lens-boards (medium and large format view cameras) while also being adapted easily to M42 (most common for bellows), so it could have been a consideration as well.

It certainly works great as a bellows lens, which is what I'm using it for now. The Xenotar has been sold in a number of versions including the body this Componon has, but also in shutters.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have one of this lenses and I find out that it is a Xenotar lens design, made of five lenses. It is not a classic Componon lens with six elements.
Maybe it is a real xenotar 2.8/80mm but with a smaller aperture only. The aperture diameter is fixed ate f/4 but the lens has not the largest possible diameter.

It is also made with rare earth glass, thorium glass in this case. It yellowished the lens cement. You find it on Xenotar lenses as well.

It is a very good lens, can be use as enlarging and taking lens as well.

A very rare gem.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
arri wrote:
I have one of this lenses and I find out that it is a Xenotar lens design, made of five lenses. It is not a classic Componon lens with six elements.
Maybe it is a real xenotar 2.8/80mm but with a smaller aperture only. The aperture diameter is fixed ate f/4 but the lens has not the largest possible diameter.

It is also made with rare earth glass, thorium glass in this case. It yellowished the lens cement. You find it on Xenotar lenses as well.

It is a very good lens, can be use as enlarging and taking lens as well.

A very rare gem.


Thanks for the confirmation - so my suspicions and observation (mentioned in the initial post) were actually correct! Always great to find a lens like that.

I‘m really curious how many of those Componons have been made… they don‘t have prototype serials, but the overall number might be pretty low regardless.

Does yours have a serial number on it?


PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nice lens and images.

I have found this lens in just two Schneider catalogues from 1955 and 1957 which are available online at https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/rlSchneiderMisc.htm.

This lens has dissapeared from 1961 catalogue, so it was produced for a short time and possibly with two designs, since the earlyer pic says it is "five glass, Gauss-type
f :4 lens" and later mentions "6-lens, air-spaced design". Interesting, that this later lens has serial starting with 4.

I have Xenotars 105/2,8 and 150/2,8 - also very fine lenses.

1955:


1957:


PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: The curious Schneider Kreuznach Componon 80 mm f/4 Reply with quote
simple.joy wrote:
I can't (and won't) claim to be very knowledgeable when it comes to manual focus lenses, and even within the more narrow niche area of enlarging and industrial lenses, I've done quite some research in, there are still innumerous little details and products which I'm completely unfamiliar with. But from time to time I notice something while browsing the internet which jumps out at me like a four-leaf clover in a patch of regular ones... I immediately know something looks different with this one and this was such a case:

The Schneider Kreuznach Componon 80 mm f/4 (silver chrome) enlarging lens





I'm of course familiar with the small Componon 80 mm f/5.6 in several versions, the Durst variants, the Componon-S 80 mm f/4 and f/5.6 and the WA Componon 80 mm f/5.6 (in two variants). Finally there's also the M-Componon 80 mm f/4. But this one looked different.

It was in a pretty worn down state, but I was very curious if my suspicion was right, and this was another variant of Componon I had not heard of before. Turns out, it is!

This version is significantly bigger than the small and very common silver chrome 80 mm f/5.6 version and it likely uses a different optical design as well. The dimensions of the front and rear element actually reminded me more of a different Schneider Kreuznach taking lens, the Xenotar 80 mm f/2.8. So I've compared the reflections of these two lenses and they match pretty much exactly. I'm pretty sure that version of Componon is actually a stopped-down variant of that particular medium format lens and thus a 5/4 optical design, known for its very pleasant rendering.


If you have any additional information, your own experiences with that lens or further questions, I'm all ears!


There was at least a Xenotar type Componon 50mm 2.8, a lens diagram shown here:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/5-element-schneider-componon-s-50mm-f2-8-info-wanted.169926/

Then there is some rumor about a connection with the Meogon lenses of Meopta.
Lots of Soviet enlarging lenses with some kind of Xenotar-Unilite designs.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lovely rendering (and great photographer’s skills of course!).


PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Max78 wrote:
Nice lens and images.

I have found this lens in just two Schneider catalogues from 1955 and 1957 which are available online at https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/rlSchneiderMisc.htm.

This lens has dissapeared from 1961 catalogue, so it was produced for a short time and possibly with two designs, since the earlyer pic says it is "five glass, Gauss-type
f :4 lens" and later mentions "6-lens, air-spaced design". Interesting, that this later lens has serial starting with 4.

I have Xenotars 105/2,8 and 150/2,8 - also very fine lenses.

1955:


1957:


Thank you so much - that's very valuable information! I didn't know there was a 6-element version with that (silver chrome) body as well. Will likely make it hard to distinguish, but I'm sure there's a way. Both seem quite uncommon though.

Does someone here have the 6-element version? Or have seen it at least? Would be interesting if Schneider sold it as something else as well, given how frequently they've done that. I'm pretty sure if the diameters of the lenses are similar to the 5-element lens it's notably faster than f/4 as well.


Ernst Dinkla wrote:


There was at least a Xenotar type Componon 50mm 2.8, a lens diagram shown here:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/5-element-schneider-componon-s-50mm-f2-8-info-wanted.169926/

Then there is some rumor about a connection with the Meogon lenses of Meopta.
Lots of Soviet enlarging lenses with some kind of Xenotar-Unilite designs.


Many thanks! You're right... the connection to the Meogon line wasn't something I had considered, but it's absolutely possible. The (for an enlarging lens) unusually fast Meogon 80 mm f/2.8 has a similar 5-element design and they changed it from a 6-element one they used for the heavy zebra-design Meogons before. A reoccuring thing with these two companies, it seems.

caspert79 wrote:
Lovely rendering (and great photographer’s skills of course!).


Thank you very much - I'm happy you think so!


PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Great find! Seems are indeed! Like 1 small Like 1 small Like 1 small


PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2024 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
My lens has the serial #: 4139982
I hold it in my hand now and I´am sure that it is identich with the Xenotar 2.8/80mm.

The Xenotar design were changed also, you can find the Rolleiflex 2.8f with the five element and with the later six element Xenotar.

It is not new that Schneider offered identic lenses with diffent names.
F.ex.: the Componon 4/28 and 4/35 are identic with the Xenon 2/28 and 2/35. Only the apertures in the barrels were limited at the smaller values.
The optical system is identic.
I testet the 2/28 Xenon with Arriflex ST mount and the Componon 4/28mm enlarging lens. Here I open the aperture value to f/2.0 before testing.
I saw no different between the results of both lenses, the image circles are identic as well.
Schneider sold the Xenon 2/28 and 2/35 als enlarging lenses too but with a higher prices.

This short Xenon/Componon lenses are excellent for micro photography. Can be use up to a ratio of 5:1
Best results with f/2.0
But this is another story.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2024 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="simple.joy"]
Max78 wrote:
Nice lens and images.

Does someone here have the 6-element version? Or have seen it at least? Would be interesting if Schneider sold it as something else as well, given how frequently they've done that. I'm pretty sure if the diameters of the lenses are similar to the 5-element lens it's notably faster than f/4 as well.

Ernst Dinkla wrote:


There was at least a Xenotar type Componon 50mm 2.8, a lens diagram shown here:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/5-element-schneider-componon-s-50mm-f2-8-info-wanted.169926/

Then there is some rumor about a connection with the Meogon lenses of Meopta.
Lots of Soviet enlarging lenses with some kind of Xenotar-Unilite designs.


Many thanks! You're right... the connection to the Meogon line wasn't something I had considered, but it's absolutely possible. The (for an enlarging lens) unusually fast Meogon 80 mm f/2.8 has a similar 5-element design and they changed it from a 6-element one they used for the heavy zebra-design Meogons before. A reoccuring thing with these two companies, it seems.



I guess most Componons are Plasmat types, the 4/6 G/E info often suggests double gauss but in EL lenses Plasmat is a common design. I cleaned a chrome (1964?) Durst Componon 180mm 5.6 with 19 aperture blades today and it is a Plasmat as well. The change from Xenotar to Plasmat or the other way around is bigger than remaining in the double gauss category . Of course SK had another line of Plasmats in the Symmar lenses.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2024 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
arri wrote:
My lens has the serial #: 4139982
I hold it in my hand now and I´am sure that it is identich with the Xenotar 2.8/80mm.

The Xenotar design were changed also, you can find the Rolleiflex 2.8f with the five element and with the later six element Xenotar.

It is not new that Schneider offered identic lenses with diffent names.
F.ex.: the Componon 4/28 and 4/35 are identic with the Xenon 2/28 and 2/35. Only the apertures in the barrels were limited at the smaller values.
The optical system is identic.
I testet the 2/28 Xenon with Arriflex ST mount and the Componon 4/28mm enlarging lens. Here I open the aperture value to f/2.0 before testing.
I saw no different between the results of both lenses, the image circles are identic as well.
Schneider sold the Xenon 2/28 and 2/35 als enlarging lenses too but with a higher prices.

This short Xenon/Componon lenses are excellent for micro photography. Can be use up to a ratio of 5:1
Best results with f/2.0
But this is another story.


Thank you very much for the information! I'm quite familiar with both the 28 and 35 mm Componon and Xenon (enlarging/industrial lens variants) lenses and love using them for high magnification macro work, as well as regular close-up shooting (at least the 35 mm). Thanks for confirming the Arriflex lenses are the same as well. I've suspected that to be the case, but wasn't able to test it, because I don't have one of those.

Do you know if the TV Xenon lenses (50, 75, 100 mm, as seen here: https://forum.mflenses.com/tv-xenon-f2-100mm-unrecognized-mount-t81510.html) are the same as the Arriflex equivalents as well? I would expect them to be, but I can't be sure, because I assume not too many people have both in their possession.

Slightly OT, but just to emphasis my support for what you said about the Xenons/Componons being great lenses... I fully agree and love using them:

Connected through light by simple.joy, on Flickr

ForKing and Color! by simple.joy, on Flickr

Com-four-table-top by simple.joy, on Flickr

Glowing with joy by simple.joy, on Flickr

Color de-livery by simple.joy, on Flickr

Painting Spring by simple.joy, on Flickr


PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2024 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have 150/5,6 and 180/5,6 Componons in bronze/chrome, excellent lenses, but heavy, however my working horses are Componon-S. 50/2,8 on helicoid and Componon-S 100/5,6 on bellow. Enlarger Schneiders can beat the most expensive camera lenses, it has no CA, no geometrical distortion, sharp corner to corner and very affordable.
Your micro photos are wonderful!


PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2024 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I know only the 50mm TV Xenon and it is the same lens design which were used for the Arriflex lenses and I´am sure that the 75mm and 100mm are the same as well.
Only the 150mm f/2.8 is different, Schneider reduced the rear cell, I guess to make it usable with the TV camera. The optical design is the same but can´t be use for the 4x5" format.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2024 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
arri wrote:
I know only the 50mm TV Xenon and it is the same lens design which were used for the Arriflex lenses and I´am sure that the 75mm and 100mm are the same as well.
Only the 150mm f/2.8 is different, Schneider reduced the rear cell, I guess to make it usable with the TV camera. The optical design is the same but can´t be use for the 4x5" format.


Thank you very much - that's good to know.
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Home   Manual Focus Lenses
Page 1 of 1