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Tair-11 133mm 2.8 - preset, aperture problem
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:59 pm    Post subject: Tair-11 133mm 2.8 - preset, aperture problem Reply with quote
Shortly, I bought a Tair-11 133mm 2.8 from ebay(trusted seller) and I had some surprise. When moving the aperture ring to "22" marking the iris is wide opened and at the other end "2.8" is fully closed(I have a jupiter 9 that does like this too) .

I sent to the seller an email explaining what I said before with the pictures showing the 2 situations from each of aperture ring settings. From what I see on this lens the preset ring is the first one starting from the front part of the lens and the next is the aperture ring.

I received a reply with some markings on the pictures that I don't agree. Maybe I am wrong, that's why I kindly ask your opinion.

his reply:

Hi!

Sorry, but it's exactly what did I say you about the DOF aperture ring and aperture ring. Lens is OK!

You have aperture set to f=22. You're rotating not aperture ring, but DOF ring - which allows to open aperture fully (in order to focus camera), and than to close it to pre-set position without looking on the lens (in your case pre-set position is f=22).

DOF ring allows to open aperture in full (to f=2.8 for Tair), than to close it to pre-set position. You're trying to rotate the only DOF ring. Please check the first picture - aperture is set to f=22 (actual aperture red dot is on 22). When you're rotating DOF ring, you're not changing the aperture! In case you'll set aperture ring to f=16 - DOF ring will be opening / closing the real aperture form 2.8 to 16; in case you'll set aperture ring to 5.6 - DOF ring will be opening / closing the real aperture form 2.8 to 5.6 etc. -->





I don't agree with him, first ring from the top of the lens is the PRESET ONE(once moved to "11" lets say it restricts the second ring movement to partial range) and NOT the APERTURE as he says.

Second ring is the APERTURE and not the DOF as he claims.

What do you think, am I right or him?

Anyone had these experiences with lenses(aperture mounted to function reverse)?

Thank you!


PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well he's right though his answer is convoluted. Get away from that distinction between DOF ring and aperture ring, its just confusing. The top ring is a re-stricter ring. You set it at the aperture you want for the shot. Its so you can go from wide open to focus and close down rapidly without having to take you eye away from the camera. The numbers are 'reversed' in most of these Russian lenses. The lens is fine


PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just ignore the red dot on the second ring. It means nothing and confuses everybody! Smile


PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
themoleman342 wrote:
Well he's right though his answer is convoluted. Get away from that distinction between DOF ring and aperture ring, its just confusing. The top ring is a re-stricter ring. You set it at the aperture you want for the shot. Its so you can go from wide open to focus and close down rapidly without having to take you eye away from the camera.

I agree so far, completely, first ring(top ring as you say) is the PRESET ring.

themoleman342 wrote:

The numbers are 'reversed' in most of these Russian lenses. The lens is fine


If reversed if I want to select let's say f/2.8 I switch the aperture ring at "2.8" position but the aperture will be fully closed as you see in the second picture.
It would not matter if aperture points marked on the barrel would be of equally spaced in between. Like the interval between 2.8 4 5.6 8 11 16 22 would all be the same(each 3 aperture points to be symetrical to "8" marking). Then I'd just use to set aperture ring to "16" marking to get in fact the iris to open corresponding to 2.8, "11" marking to get the iris open corresponding to 5.6 and so on.

But in reality spacing between these 7 aperture markings are not equal so each time I want to open the iris let's say at f/4 I must measure by eye the distance between "2.8" and "4" markings and to count it starting from the other end("22" marking) establishing where would be the "virtual" "4" point. Meaning a bit left to the "8" marking. And this is is annoying. I have payed for a fully working lens, I asked seller before purchase, he said is fully working.




PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The lens is OK.

Let's say you want take some portrait at f/5.6:

1. set f/5.6 at preset ring
2. open the aperture by the second ring to get more light and shallow DOF for easy focusing
3. focus
4. turn the second ring to the backstop (the aperture will close to f/5.6)
5. take picture

This is how the Russian aperture system works. The red point on the second ring means nothing, it's just confusing.


PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you want to set the lens at f4 you set the top ring at f4. The bottom ring will turn between f2.8 and f4. When the dot is at 2.8 the lens will be at f4. If you want the lens to be at f8 you set the top ring at f8. The bottom ring will turn between f2.8 and f8. When the dot is at 2.8 the lens will be at f8. This is how it works. It is fully working. Nothing is reversed or out of place. Unless I am completely misunderstanding you...which very well may be the case.

Last edited by themoleman342 on Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
So I see the aperture ring of my Tair(second one) is working in the opposite way as at other preset lens I have(Oly Sonnar, Biotar turn aperture ring counter clockwise- seen from back of lens - to close...).

If you say this is characteristic to russian preset lens I'll keep this in mind. I didn't know and took it as mounting fault.

PS: I have also a Jupiter 9 8,5cm f/2 that has the aperture ring functioning as german preset lens(counter-clockwise seen from the back).

Thanks for your answers, helped alot!


PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Many Russian lenses are copied German designs, so some of them haven't "reveresed" ring, but most of them (including original Russian designs) have it.


PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
In my experiences mir-1 is like this along with the helios 44-2 so if your not a fan, don't get these.


PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here's the Helios 44-2, I think the aperture setting works the same as the Tair.
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