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Speed Graphic Aero Ektar
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:55 pm    Post subject: Speed Graphic Aero Ektar Reply with quote
After owning the lens for 2 years, I recently picked up a nice Speed Graphic to go with it.

My Aero Ektar still has a seized cylindrical section that needs to be removed to allow the rear of the lens to go through the opening of the front standard.

In the meantime, I've made a 3D ptinted lens board that will hold the lens further forward, so at least it's usable. However, there is more stress being placed upon the front standard than I'd like plus it makes the set up even more front heavy than it will be when the lens eventually sits in it's optimal position.

Looking forward to using it!


PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Legendary aero ektar. Is possible to focus with this unedited version? Would be interested in some samples then.

Meanwhile saw one Navitar 177,8mm f2.5 which should cover large format but it has also some rear part to dismantle. By the specs what I got from seller it is too long even for middleformat SLR by my opinion. Might be good for Graflex. But not sure.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
spleenone wrote:
Legendary aero ektar. Is possible to focus with this unedited version? Would be interested in some samples then.

Meanwhile saw one Navitar 177,8mm f2.5 which should cover large format but it has also some rear part to dismantle. By the specs what I got from seller it is too long even for middleformat SLR by my opinion. Might be good for Graflex. But not sure.


Having the lens sit further forward is not a problem with infinity and effectively makes closer focussing easier as it requires less bellows extension.

I did not know that Navitar made lenses for formats greater than 35mm. Ideally you want the rear of the lens to have a diameter of less than 74mm for a Speed Graphic, the cylindrical piece on the back of my lens is fractionally wider...


PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
itsfozzy wrote:

Having the lens sit further forward is not a problem with infinity and effectively makes closer focussing easier as it requires less bellows extension.

I did not know that Navitar made lenses for formats greater than 35mm. Ideally you want the rear of the lens to have a diameter of less than 74mm for a Speed Graphic, the cylindrical piece on the back of my lens is fractionally wider...


Yes also for large format. Didn´t see proves/pictures made with such combo although, hah. Only mounted on LF cam. That Navirar what I have talked about has little smaller back hole. But I do not solve that then. See to much complication about adapting for some midformat cam or for acquiring new Graflex. You know.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you're worried about the front standard, put a support ("crutch") between the lens and the outer bed rail.

I shoot a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic with a 4"/2.0 TTH Anastigmat (ex-Vinten F.95) mounted completely in front of the lens board. Same problem, same solution.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2023 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I recently obtained the Speed Graphic camera





It needed some cleaning and restoration, but not too major one. Which had been already performed by the professional repairman.

My idea was to use with it the barrel lenses of 300mm (which I have in my storage) for the portraits, taken with the onboard range finder. Using the onboard shutter.

Then I discovered, that the Hugo Meyer range finder isn't able to go far from 135mm lens. So, I started to think concerning replacement it by the Kalart Synchronized Range finder. However, I am not certain at all that it wound be able to reach range for 300mm lens on the camera.

Does anybody had any experience on that field? And how practical it would be to use the range finder on the Speed Graphic camera with 300mm lenses anyway?


PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2023 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hmm. Your camera is probably an Anniversary Speed Graphic. Its 127/4.7 Ektar is uncoated and was made in 1945. I can't tell whether it is for 3.25"x4.25" film or for 4x5. What is its serial number?

The 3x4 Anny's maximum extension is ~ 305 mm, the 4x5's is ~ 343 mm, so both should be able to focus a 300 mm lens to infinity. Your best bet for either would be a telephoto type but mounting a lens in barrel entirely in front of the lens board will work too. This may require a cup-shaped adapter.

A Kalart won't work with a 300 mm lens. Kalarts aren't quickly or easily adjusted, so changing lenses in the field with a Graphic that has a Kalart or Meyer RF is a very bad idea.

I've shot with lenses as long as 480 mm on 2x3 Graphics. Using a 480 required heroic measures, not recommended. The longest lens that fits comfortably on a 2x3 Speed is the 12"/4 TTH telephoto that was made for F.95, F. 134 and F.139 aerial cameras. Shooting a 300 handheld on a Graphic is physically possible but a waste of film. Shoot longer lenses on tripod.

If you reply, please post a picture of your camera's back. If it is a Graflok and your camera is a 4x5er you'll be able to shoot roll film relatively easily. If a Graphic, also called spring, back and your camera is a 4x5er, there are insertion type roll holders that might fit. The best choice may be a 4x5 Adapt-A-Roll 620. I could be mistaken, but I don't believe there are roll holders that fit 3x4 backs.


PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
danfromm wrote:
Hmm. Your camera is probably an Anniversary Speed Graphic. Its 127/4.7 Ektar is uncoated and was made in 1945. I can't tell whether it is for 3.25"x4.25" film or for 4x5. What is its serial number?


Oh, well it is coated. And it is 4x5! Laugh 1

And there it is no serial number on the camera.

I really have the plans to use the RF-3 LOMO 10/300mm on it.



It has to fit nicely. But I still don’t know how close it will come for the portraits.

I also have in my storage I-11M lens.



Which also should fit, with the proper board, without any problem. But for the portraits it is rather too sharp (so called "sandy sharpens") as for my taste.

I really didn’t plan to change it quickly. Rather to adjust it for that lens on the permanent basis. But anyway I started to doubt that it will work for distances, closed enough for the portraiture. Which is pity, because I have already obtained by $50 for the purpose that rangefinder in the condition “old new stock” in full set.



danfromm wrote:
If you reply, please post a picture of your camera's back. If it is a Graflok and your camera is a 4x5er you'll be able to shoot roll film relatively easily. If a Graphic, also called spring, back and your camera is a 4x5er, there are insertion type roll holders that might fit. .


It is “Graflex” model, and so it is really doesn’t accepts Graflok backs. I have the Calumet 6x7 adapter for that type of cameras. But anyway I don’t plan to use it on the camera, because for the rollfilm I have plenty of other cameras, including Horseman VH-R among the others.



Last edited by LittleAlex on Sun Dec 03, 2023 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The serial number should be stamped on the inside of the box. On the top.

How do you know your camera has a Graflex back? They were an option on Speed Graphics, not the default. A spring back was the default for Annies.

Thanks for confirming that your camera is a 4x5er. I couldn't tell which it was from your photo.

About Graflok backs. They were introduced for the Pacemaker Graphics (1947 to 1972) in 1949, were initially an option. What matters for you is that a Graflok back of the right size (they were made to fit 2x3, 3x4, or 4x5 Graphics) is a direct replacement for the non-Graflok back on your camera. And there were Graflok backs made to be retrofitted to Annies. These have a flash terminal at the upper left.

About your lens. For the second time, it was made in 1945. Kodak's lens date codes are based on CAMEROSITY. 1234567890. ER decodes t0 45. Kodak started coating for the civilian market in 1946. Factory coated Kodak lenses have an "L" (stands for Lumenized, Kodak's term for coated) in a circle on the trim ring. Your lens doesn't have this.


PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2023 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
danfromm wrote:
The serial number should be stamped on the inside of the box. On the top.


Oh well, indeed! There it is – 343249.

danfromm wrote:
How do you know your camera has a Graflex back? They were an option on Speed Graphics, not the default. A spring back was the default for Annies.


Simply because it is written at the top of the camera.



danfromm wrote:

About Graflok backs. They were introduced for the Pacemaker Graphics (1947 to 1972) in 1949, were initially an option. What matters for you is that a Graflok back of the right size (they were made to fit 2x3, 3x4, or 4x5 Graphics) is a direct replacement for the non-Graflok back on your camera. And there were Graflok backs made to be retrofitted to Annies. These have a flash terminal at the upper left.


There is how it looks:



danfromm wrote:

Factory coated Kodak lenses have an "L" (stands for Lumenized, Kodak's term for coated) in a circle on the trim ring. Your lens doesn't have this.


Well – but it is REALLY COATED! It is evidently seen on the first picture!

To solve the riddle – in the Undated States, at 60-th, there had been a lot of the little companies, which professionally coated the older lenses, that had been factory uncoated, by request of its owners. So, it is quite possible, that that the present lens was coated later independently, by its owner, for the additional price.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2023 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
LittleAlex wrote:
danfromm wrote:
The serial number should be stamped on the inside of the box. On the top.


Oh well, indeed! There it is – 343249.


Thanks. That s/n is in a block of 1000 3x4 Speed Graphic serial numbers (342636 - 3436250) issued late in 1944. The next block of 3x4 serial numbers was issued 5/21/45. Your camera was probably made in 1945. Did the seller offer it as a 4x5er?

danfromm wrote:
How do you know your camera has a Graflex back? They were an option on Speed Graphics, not the default. A spring back was the default for Annies.


Quote:
Simply because it is written at the top of the camera.



Thanks again. All that means is that Graflex made the camera.

Quote:
There is how it [the back] looks:



Thanks again. That is a spring back. Spring backs have integral focusing panels. Graflok backs have removable focusing panels. Spring backs are held to the camera body by two leaf springs, one above and one below. Graflok backs are held to the body by two sliders, one above and one below. Graflex backs are held to the body by one slider above.

If your 127/4.7 Ektar is coated, Kodak didn't do it.

If you want to use an I-11M (300/9 Apo-Tessar clone) any closer than very very far way on that camera you'll have to devise a "top hat" lens board. Should be relatively easy since Annies' boards are flat wood.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2023 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
danfromm wrote:

That s/n is in a block of 1000 3x4 Speed Graphic serial numbers (342636 - 3436250) issued late in 1944. The next block of 3x4 serial numbers was issued 5/21/45. Your camera was probably made in 1945.


Very nice to know. Thanks!

danfromm wrote:

Did the seller offer it as a 4x5er?


No. Rather I had mistaken myself. However, for me it is not very important. I have also plenty of 9X12 plate holders in my storage, and the developing tank for that format.

And anyway, who would carry much about at the price of $150?

danfromm wrote:
That is a spring back.


Oh yes. I believe you are completely right! Thanks for your information!

danfromm wrote:

If your 127/4.7 Ektar is coated, Kodak didn't do it.


Well, I really don’t care much concerning of that who exactly did it. But I am completely satisfied that somebody did care to do it.

danfromm wrote:
If you want to use an I-11M (300/9 Apo-Tessar clone) any closer than very very far way on that camera you'll have to devise a "top hat" lens board. Should be relatively easy since Annies' boards are flat wood.


I already did exploration how far the 300mm lens has to be stretched for the portraiture there. And the conclusion was that it doesn’t look too practical unfortunately.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2023 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="LittleAlex"]
danfromm wrote:


No. Rather I had mistaken myself. However, for me it is not very important. I have also plenty of 9X12 plate holders in my storage, and the developing tank for that format.


Thanks for the reply. Please check whether a 9x12 plate holder will go into a 3x4 back. I've always understood that 9x12 film is the metric equivalent of 4x5 film. Remember that nominal film sizes, e.g., 9x12, don't always match actual sizes as measured.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2023 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
danfromm wrote:
Please check whether a 9x12 plate holder will go into a 3x4 back. I've always understood that 9x12 film is the metric equivalent of 4x5 film. Remember that nominal film sizes, e.g., 9x12, don't always match actual sizes as measured.


Yes, I did check it immediately after I understood that it is 9x12! I used German plate holder by Voigtlander from 30-th, and it fitted perfectly!

There even came the dedicated double plate holder with the camera, but I didn't check it attentively immediately. Only now I see that it is Kodak 9x12 holder!



However, there is an additional problem, as I discovered. The repairmen, who checked the camera for me, did put in order the onboard shutter. Mechanically it is now OK. Bud then, looking to the light I discovered a lot of the pinholes on the curtain. He refused to make for me the new curtain. I searched through the Net, and discovered that it is possible to renovate it by means of so called "rubber paint":

https://youtu.be/pK-hhQhpej0?si=wj7bG8v5OfQdvugC

Still have to find what kind of that liquid should be used.


PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2023 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hmm. If you're not already on graflex.org, join and look for help and information there. I think that at present no repairmen are active on the site, but there is a wealth of information.

Ian Grant, who posts on photrio.com, has repaired many roller blind shutters and should be able to advise you.

Finally, largeformatphotography.info/forum/ has posters who can advise you.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
danfromm wrote:
If you're not already on graflex.org, join and look for help and information there. I think that at present no repairmen are active on the site, but there is a wealth of information.


Thank you very much for that valuable information!

danfromm wrote:
Its 127/4.7 Ektar is uncoated and was made in 1945


I believe it is Tessar, by the optical scheme, or I am mistaken?


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I discovered the 3D laser printed model for 300mm Industar-37 which is marginally usable for my 300mm lenses

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4896904


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LittleAlex wrote:
I discovered the 3D laser printed model for 300mm Industar-37 which is marginally usable for my 300mm lenses

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4896904


That's nice. It appears to be designed to fit a 4x5 Pacemaker Graphic. This have 3 23/32" x 3 21/32" metal boards with lips that fit into a light trap on the front standard. You have a 3x4 Anniversary Graphic. It has a 3.25" X 3.25' flat lens board. I suppose the design can be modified.

Yes, the 127/4.7 Ektar is a Tessar type. Ektar is a trade name, not a design type. Not all Ektars are Tessar types.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2023 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
danfromm wrote:
This have 3 23/32" x 3 21/32" metal boards with lips that fit into a light trap on the front standard. You have a 3x4 Anniversary Graphic. It has a 3.25" X 3.25' flat lens board. I suppose the design can be modified.


Yes, very important information. Thanks! Thank you!


PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Experienced with the different lenses on the camera. Discovered, that Meopta Meopar 4.5/210 might be used for the portraits on the common flat board with the standard camera extension. Regarding that it is copy of the famous Heliar, it might be well working for the portraiture.

However, it is only equivalent to 59mm in 35mm format, which makes it rather as Biotar 58/2.0, that is not exactly good for that use.

There are somebodies experiences with that lens exactly on the Speed Graphic:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tomslot/8752005270/in/photostream/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tomslot/8752004254/in/photostream/

Looks very nice as for me.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2024 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I ordered the full set of lens boards for my cameras. Now it is possible to use 300mm lenses upon it:



However, with the standard lens board it is possible to focus no closer then 10 meters, unfortunately.
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