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Sigma Multi Protel YS 200mm f2.8 M42
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 2:54 pm    Post subject: Sigma Multi Protel YS 200mm f2.8 M42 Reply with quote
Picked on of these up off ebay in mint condition( no dust or anything like it came off a production line) the other day and have been having a bit of a test out this morning. Not seen much on the web about them and they seem to be a bit of a rarity so thought I would give my first impressions.




I shot with it on a 5d mkiii and the first few shots were atrocious with terrible ghosting in the centre of the frame on lots of shots. It seems this thing does not like sunshine at all especially at smaller apertures. Using it like a normal 200mm It seems pretty comfortable @f4-f5.6 and I got some ok shots around those marks even with a bit of light in the sky. Wide open it gets a real dreamy low contrast soft look to the images which looks ok if that is the effect you want, it could be used as an advantage.

Here is a couple shots illustrating the above.

Ghosting at around f8 (can't remember exactly might have been f11)


A pano from 8 images at f4, stitched and tweaked a bit(not much) in PS

]

Still trying to figure out the best conditions to use this lens in really. I tried getting around the flare/ ghosting using a deep lens hood but I suspect the ghosting is the result of the lens being designed for film and with a shiny digital sensor it is catching a reflection off one of the elements that wouldn't have been such a problem on a strip of film.

To show off the wide open dreamy effect I used it in macro mode on a daffodil a couple of feet away.


Here is the same flower but stopped down to f11


And another plant at f5.6


A gravestone at f11


Snowdrops @f3.5



A couple others I can't remember what settings







Overall not my sharpest acquisition but it has some potential as long as I remember it has some rather major limitations. Really looking forward to trying it out on some dragonflies later in the year, providing its a grey day...


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I once encouraged a friend of mine to get one of these 2nd hand from some dealer in London in the early 80s. I was arguing the unusual low price for the 2,8 speed. 🙈
I was with Olympus at the time but the lens was with an MD mount, which was his gear.
He was later really cross at me because he never got any sharp pic out of it. But you show very well the potential of that lens once you know its plusses and flaws.
I wouldn't mind getting one too. The - low, very low - serial number is interesting too.
PS: That gravestone doesn't look friendly at all. 💀 (but yes, sharp pic)

Last edited by Phalbert on Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:34 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Phalbert wrote:
I once encouraged a friend of mine to get one of these 2nd hand from some dealer in London in the early 80s. I was arguing the unusual price for speed. 🙈 I was with Olympus at the time but the lens was with an MD mount, which was his gear.
He was later really cross at me because he never got any sharp pic out of it. But you show very well the potential of that lens once you know its plusses and flaws.
I wouldn't mind getting one too. The - low, very low - serial number is interesting too.
PS: That gravestone doesn't look friendly at all. 💀 (but yes, sharp pic)

Yes that grave stone is pretty creepy but it caught my eye and had some good textures to show off sharpness.

I have to say if I was shooting on film I wouldn't happy having to run through a couple hundred shots to see what worked and didn't, waiting/ paying for development and having to be meticulous about recording settings and shot numbers. Being able to review a shot on the fly with digital makes this much easier and cut the trial and error down dramatically.

One thing I quickly noticed is the different coloured aperture numbers. Green for the smaller apertures seemed to correspond to the green reproduction ratio lettering that becomes visible when you start focusing in macro mode. These seemed to be the lenses sweet spot in terms of IQ when close focusing whereas the orange wider end apertures worked best for normal tele shooting. Shooting outside that range for either purpose and the shots go into the realm of artistic to down right terrible.

I agreed to shoot a charity concert for my mother in-law next week in a church (not on a professional basis and no real pressure) so I am going to try this out for at least a few test shots in what could be a very dynamically lit environment. Should be interesting although I will also be bringing my dedicated EF Sigma 150/ 2.8 and a couple other fast WA lenses just in case the test shots are not too good. Thinking this might have problems with light from stained glass if its a particularly bright day.


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Waiting eagerly for your concert pics. You'll probably have to shoot wide open a lot if it's indoors, so I wouldn't trust this lens too much for that... Unless you want the glow and all.


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Phalbert wrote:
Waiting eagerly for your concert pics. You'll probably have to shoot wide open a lot if it's indoors, so I wouldn't trust this lens too much for that... Unless you want the glow and all.

Should be Ok, I shot this church for architecture images a few years ago before they did a big refurb it has plenty of natural light even on dull days so I'm hoping not to have to go wide open. Then again glowing halos around people seems kind of fitting for a church scene... Wink


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not all the holy looking people are holy... 😂


PostPosted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
No need to buy an expensive soft focus lens Wink


PostPosted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
What about portraits with this lens? I might guess it was designed so the soft look would help with portraits


PostPosted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
No need to buy an expensive soft focus lens Wink

I never knew I needed one but good to have I guess as I wouldn't know I did until I did... Wink
kiddo wrote:
What about portraits with this lens? I might guess it was designed so the soft look would help with portraits

Not tried any yet but I will see how it does at the concert next Fri. If you mean studio style I could try some self portraits but I'm pretty sure my ugly mug would crack the lens Laughing


PostPosted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The "Death's Head" tombstones such as this one in this photo are actually quite an interesting topic of study among cultural and historical scholars. They were popular, particularly among Puritans, in Great Britain and New England (USA) in the 17th and 18th Centuries, and are thought to reflect a preoccupation with death and human suffering that characterized the culture of the time. The move away from them toward other designs such as cherubs and, particularly in America, an "urn and willow" design, is though to reflect the increasing secular and humane worldview of the late 18th-19th Century Georgian era.


The seminal article on the subject was written by Deetz and Dethlefsen back in 1967:
http://www.histarch.illinois.edu/plymouth/deathshead.html

sasquatch wrote:

Yes that grave stone is pretty creepy but it caught my eye and had some good textures to show off sharpness.



PostPosted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
" but I'm pretty sure my ugly mug would crack the lens Laughing[/quote]"

No need to tell anyone it's you in the pic... Laugh 1

Once you're done testing and should you consider re-selling, (who knows? 🤷‍♂️) I'd be interested. 😉 Thanks!


PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
BrianSVP wrote:
The "Death's Head" tombstones such as this one in this photo are actually quite an interesting topic of study among cultural and historical scholars. They were popular, particularly among Puritans, in Great Britain and New England (USA) in the 17th and 18th Centuries, and are thought to reflect a preoccupation with death and human suffering that characterized the culture of the time. The move away from them toward other designs such as cherubs and, particularly in America, an "urn and willow" design, is though to reflect the increasing secular and humane worldview of the late 18th-19th Century Georgian era.


The seminal article on the subject was written by Deetz and Dethlefsen back in 1967:
http://www.histarch.illinois.edu/plymouth/deathshead.html

sasquatch wrote:

Yes that grave stone is pretty creepy but it caught my eye and had some good textures to show off sharpness.


Interesting and makes sense historically speaking, thanks for the link and learning moment.

Phalbert wrote:
No need to tell anyone it's you in the pic... Laugh 1

Once you're done testing and should you consider re-selling, (who knows? 🤷‍♂️) I'd be interested. 😉 Thanks!

Very true!!
I have to say, the more I play with this lens the more I like it. Not sure I want to let it go at least not any time soon, I seriously doubt I would ever find another especially in this condition. If I do decide to sell it I will give you first crack though. Smile

I have a play this morning under a studio strobe trying some soft focus stuff.





PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
For the benefit of all readers; presumably everyone is aware of the SIGMA "SYSTEM FOCUSING" system on this lens, and that in macro mode the colour coding on the aperture ring indicates the maximum aperture to be used for the given corresponding colour-coded magnification indicators on the barrel?

https://lens-db.com/articles-and-tables/sigma-xq-ys/

I.e. those dreamy images at wide-open macro mode may not be how Sigma intended this lens to be used, but I rather like the effect.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
RokkorDoctor wrote:
For the benefit of all readers; presumably everyone is aware of the SIGMA "SYSTEM FOCUSING" system on this lens, and that in macro mode the colour coding on the aperture ring indicates the maximum aperture to be used for the given corresponding colour-coded magnification indicators on the barrel?

https://lens-db.com/articles-and-tables/sigma-xq-ys/

I.e. those dreamy images at wide-open macro mode may not be how Sigma intended this lens to be used, but I rather like the effect.

Ahh, I wasn't aware of that but its kind of what I had guessed in post #3 after a bit of trial and error while out and about with the lens. Thanks for the link I hadn't seen all that info before now. Certainly a unique focusing setup from any I have tried before and whether intended or not the soft focus abilities are fun to play with and make for some pleasing images imho.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There's a Sears 135mm f/2.8 that has a similar focusing setup that also delivers soft focus effects like this in macro mode. IIRC, it's a Korean-made Samyang design.

EDIT: Found an article about it:
https://steemit.com/photography/@armadilloman/art-photography-the-garden-in-february-cult-lens-1973-sears-135mm-f2-8-macro-zone


sasquatch wrote:
RokkorDoctor wrote:
For the benefit of all readers; presumably everyone is aware of the SIGMA "SYSTEM FOCUSING" system on this lens, and that in macro mode the colour coding on the aperture ring indicates the maximum aperture to be used for the given corresponding colour-coded magnification indicators on the barrel?

https://lens-db.com/articles-and-tables/sigma-xq-ys/

I.e. those dreamy images at wide-open macro mode may not be how Sigma intended this lens to be used, but I rather like the effect.

Ahh, I wasn't aware of that but its kind of what I had guessed in post #3 after a bit of trial and error while out and about with the lens. Thanks for the link I hadn't seen all that info before now. Certainly a unique focusing setup from any I have tried before and whether intended or not the soft focus abilities are fun to play with and make for some pleasing images imho.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting character, thanks for sharing!


PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
BrianSVP wrote:
There's a Sears 135mm f/2.8 that has a similar focusing setup that also delivers soft focus effects like this in macro mode. IIRC, it's a Korean-made Samyang design.

EDIT: Found an article about it:
https://steemit.com/photography/@armadilloman/art-photography-the-garden-in-february-cult-lens-1973-sears-135mm-f2-8-macro-zone


Ohh, thanks for the info. That looks very similar in design. On my list now... although I might have to wait till I'm next in the States as the shipping to the UK would make it way more than I would want to spend. Shame I can't seem to find any more local sellers, any chance if you know if it goes by any other names in Europe?

alex ph wrote:
Interesting character, thanks for sharing!

Many thanks, glad it was of interest! Smile


PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2024 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
BrianSVP wrote:
There's a Sears 135mm f/2.8 that has a similar focusing setup that also delivers soft focus effects like this in macro mode. IIRC, it's a Korean-made Samyang design.

EDIT: Found an article about it:
https://steemit.com/photography/@armadilloman/art-photography-the-garden-in-february-cult-lens-1973-sears-135mm-f2-8-macro-zone


Thanks again for this, I just purchased this off of ebay. Like I need another 135mm in my life!! Laugh 1


PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2024 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
mr_tibbs2004 wrote:
BrianSVP wrote:
There's a Sears 135mm f/2.8 that has a similar focusing setup that also delivers soft focus effects like this in macro mode. IIRC, it's a Korean-made Samyang design.

EDIT: Found an article about it:
https://steemit.com/photography/@armadilloman/art-photography-the-garden-in-february-cult-lens-1973-sears-135mm-f2-8-macro-zone


Thanks again for this, I just purchased this off of ebay. Like I need another 135mm in my life!! Laugh 1

In fairness its a bit more than a plain old 135mm looking at reviews and sample images online. Would love to see some test shots from it when you receive your new toy.


PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2024 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Haha, think you actually bought this from me! I've had one up for a while (actually forgot it was up there), and it sold yesterday!


mr_tibbs2004 wrote:
BrianSVP wrote:
There's a Sears 135mm f/2.8 that has a similar focusing setup that also delivers soft focus effects like this in macro mode. IIRC, it's a Korean-made Samyang design.

EDIT: Found an article about it:
https://steemit.com/photography/@armadilloman/art-photography-the-garden-in-february-cult-lens-1973-sears-135mm-f2-8-macro-zone


Thanks again for this, I just purchased this off of ebay. Like I need another 135mm in my life!! Laugh 1


PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2024 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
BrianSVP wrote:
Haha, think you actually bought this from me! I've had one up for a while (actually forgot it was up there), and it sold yesterday!


mr_tibbs2004 wrote:
BrianSVP wrote:
There's a Sears 135mm f/2.8 that has a similar focusing setup that also delivers soft focus effects like this in macro mode. IIRC, it's a Korean-made Samyang design.

EDIT: Found an article about it:
https://steemit.com/photography/@armadilloman/art-photography-the-garden-in-february-cult-lens-1973-sears-135mm-f2-8-macro-zone


Thanks again for this, I just purchased this off of ebay. Like I need another 135mm in my life!! Laugh 1
now that would be funny!


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
RokkorDoctor wrote:
For the benefit of all readers; presumably everyone is aware of the SIGMA "SYSTEM FOCUSING" system on this lens, and that in macro mode the colour coding on the aperture ring indicates the maximum aperture to be used for the given corresponding colour-coded magnification indicators on the barrel?

https://lens-db.com/articles-and-tables/sigma-xq-ys/

I.e. those dreamy images at wide-open macro mode may not be how Sigma intended this lens to be used, but I rather like the effect.


The dreamy effect is due to the fact that the macro mode just move the front element, therefore the lens become uncorrected of spherical aberration
If the macro mode would have moved all the lens together (as an extension ring), the quality would have been much better .. so why this stupîd way of acting ??


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
PBFACTS wrote:
RokkorDoctor wrote:
For the benefit of all readers; presumably everyone is aware of the SIGMA "SYSTEM FOCUSING" system on this lens, and that in macro mode the colour coding on the aperture ring indicates the maximum aperture to be used for the given corresponding colour-coded magnification indicators on the barrel?

https://lens-db.com/articles-and-tables/sigma-xq-ys/

I.e. those dreamy images at wide-open macro mode may not be how Sigma intended this lens to be used, but I rather like the effect.


The dreamy effect is due to the fact that the macro mode just move the front element, therefore the lens become uncorrected of spherical aberration
If the macro mode would have moved all the lens together (as an extension ring), the quality would have been much better .. so why this stupîd way of acting ??


My guess is that this way they could keep the main focus helicoid shorter. This is just guessing, but I assume in the macro mode they move only a lens group of relative high power, so you get a lot of extra magnification per unit of physical lens extension. This comes at the expenses of some pretty obvious aberrations such as SA.

The same trick is sometimes used with 4-element Tessars where only the front element is used for focusing; it keeps the helicoid and lens compact (e.g. for "pancake" lenses), but again this comes at the cost of poor correction of aberrations for different focus distances.


PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
This strategy was also used on some of the shutter mounted lenses on vest pocket folders. The Schenider Radionars ( triplet) found on Wirgins, Weltas, and others focused this way.

RokkorDoctor wrote:
PBFACTS wrote:
RokkorDoctor wrote:
For the benefit of all readers; presumably everyone is aware of the SIGMA "SYSTEM FOCUSING" system on this lens, and that in macro mode the colour coding on the aperture ring indicates the maximum aperture to be used for the given corresponding colour-coded magnification indicators on the barrel?

https://lens-db.com/articles-and-tables/sigma-xq-ys/

I.e. those dreamy images at wide-open macro mode may not be how Sigma intended this lens to be used, but I rather like the effect.


The dreamy effect is due to the fact that the macro mode just move the front element, therefore the lens become uncorrected of spherical aberration
If the macro mode would have moved all the lens together (as an extension ring), the quality would have been much better .. so why this stupîd way of acting ??


My guess is that this way they could keep the main focus helicoid shorter. This is just guessing, but I assume in the macro mode they move only a lens group of relative high power, so you get a lot of extra magnification per unit of physical lens extension. This comes at the expenses of some pretty obvious aberrations such as SA.

The same trick is sometimes used with 4-element Tessars where only the front element is used for focusing; it keeps the helicoid and lens compact (e.g. for "pancake" lenses), but again this comes at the cost of poor correction of aberrations for different focus distances.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
the cheapest and easiest way to achieve such coveted dreaminess is to use a thin layer of vaseline either directly on the front or back element, or if reversibility is necesssary when tastes and fashions change, on a filter.

p.
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