Sigma 600 mirror

480sparky · Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 355 Location: Iowa

Mine is 105804. Filtermatic.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Hey Sparky, yours is the earliest S/N I've seen so far. What do you mean by "Filtermatic"? I'm not familiar with it. Does yours have the metal or plastic filter holder. Also, does it have a knob or a metal button for adjusting the tripod mount?

BeardsAreBest, Kei, thanks for the data. This lens is frustrating. I was originally working under the assumption that the earliest lenses would have the metal filter holder, but that isn't the case. It seems like some got them and some didn't, but that it wasn't dependent upon date of manufacture. There's one in FD mount that I found with a 9 hundred thousand serial number that has the metal holder and a metal breechlock ring for Canon FD. It also has the metal button on the tripod collar instead of the knob. Yet the one I bought in 1984 had the knob, the plastic holder and Sigma's unique copy of the new FD lens mount. It looks like New FD, but it operates like the old breechlock style. You know you've got one if the little button on the ring is red plastic. I have no idea what the s/n was for that lens, but because it had the slanted bumps on the grip, I'd always assumed it was early rather than late -- which is not a valid assumption. It almost appears that these slanted bumps were used in a random manner.

Here's on I found on eBay UK that has the Canon FD mount I'm talking about:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sigma-600mm-F8-Reflex-Lens-6-Months-Gtee-/151681212579?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2350e7a0a3

Here's another one on UK eBay that has the slanted ribbed pattern on the focusing collar. It looks to be a late style lens, with the textured black finish. No S/N visible, but it is claimed to be in "Sigma Mount," which should make it pretty late in manufacture. When did Sigma come out with cameras in its own mount? It wasn't until the 90s was it?

Here's an early on at UK eBay. It has the early gloss black paint and large lettering, the stud instead of knob for the tripod mount, but it has the plastic filter holder. The S/N is barely legible. It looks like it starts with a 2 or 3.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sigma-600mm-1200mm-on-Panasonic-G-lumix-HD-Micro-Digital-SLR-G1-G2-G3-G5-G6-G-/311362481387?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item487ea66ceb

Here's a Minolta AF/Sony mount one on eBay UK that is definitely a late lens, but has the slanted ribbing pattern. S/N begins with 103xxxx:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SIGMA-8-600-Sony-Alpha-A7-Minolta-Dynax-600mm-F8-Makro-macro-1-3-top-Tests-OVP-/390927325932?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item5b05159aec

There are more over there at UK eBay, but I think I've seen enough to arrive at a conclusion and that is that Sigma didn't really have a set sort of evolutionary scheme with this lens. There is a mix of featues that I consider early and late througout much if its long production run. Perhaps they used whatever was handy, when it comes to the filter holder? Same with the tripod mount, and focusing collar design?

My reason for going to all this trouble was hoping I could easily pinpoint an earlier lens because I'm interested in buying one of those, hoping it will be better than mine. But then I'm reminded that WNG555 has a lens with an early S/N and his seems to have problems. So I just don't know anymore. Why can't they be consistent? Evil or Very Mad

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

kryss · Expire: 2017-09-18

Hi Michael,my serial# is 226743 c/w knob & glossy black,I will take some shots and post.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Hey Kriss, yours is another with a mix of early and late features, although it's early because of yor lens's s/n. Have you posted any pics taken with your lens here?

kryss · Expire: 2017-09-18

Very rarely use this lens Michael, if ever,mostly shooting macro flora but will take it out before weekend and post shots.

Kei · Joined: 08 Jan 2015 Posts: 142 Location: S. Wales UK

This is what mine looks like. Filter mount seems to be plastic.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Hey Kei, yours looks like it has the early gloss black finish. Does yours have the S/N on the lens's filter ring area, or is it stamped into the tube down by the lens mount? I'm guessing it's up by the filter ring and it's either a 2xxxxx, 3xxxxx, or 9xxxxx.

I just remembered that I have an old photo of my Sigma. I took a pic of my friend using it. And you know what? I mis-rememberd the pattern on the focusing collar. Mine had the straight pattern, not the slanted one. Which makes me wonder why I was thinking it was slanted all these years. It looks like an early one also because of its gloss black paint. But there's not much else I can say about it.

WNG555 · Joined: 18 Dec 2014 Posts: 784 Location: Arrid-Zone-A, USA

My bad! The XQ mirror I was bidding on is a 500mm f/8. Not 600mm.

Since I had just won the 600, I didn't bid aggressively on the 500.

XQ was Sigma's top tier offering, like Tamron's SP and Tokina's AT-X. But I think they used another marketing name in Europe.

Here's a link to one on ebay now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sigma-XQ-Mirror-Ultra-Telephoto1-8-F-500mm-E-702077-Lens-Made-in-Japan/281695530693?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140602152332%26meid%3D5ffade45e5164e97abc4e3fe046d9227%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D181732924342

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Yeah, I've seen a lot of the Sigma 500s around. They all predate the 600s. Dunno how good they are. Just judging by their length, they remind me of the Russian MTO mirrors. Which, as you probably know, were mostly outstanding optics.

Today, I dragged out my Sigma 600 to the backyard again and mounted it on a sturdy tripod. I set the self timer to 10 seconds. And then I looked around for subjects that might be a challenge to it in terms of resolution. But this time, I decided I was gonna do something differrent. Instead of posting images here that have not had any pp at all, I went ahead and put them through a series of enhancements, including sharpening, to see just how information I could coax out of this lens's images. It was somewhat encouraging. Unfortunately, the sharpening created noise, so I had to use noise-reduction routines, which create problems of their own. So it's a delicate balance one must find between the two. Hopefully I've found it. Anyway, following is a series of rather boring shots, but ones that do give you some idea of its resolution capabilities.

This first shot was taken from a distance of approximately 40 meters. It is an old transformer atop a power pole on the other side of a street behind our house. I focused on an ID tag on the transformer, specifically on a numeric tag below the main ID tag.

This first shot was resized for display here. NEX 7, Sigma 600mm f/8, ISO 100:

Next, a 100% crop of the ID Plates:

This is a security light atop a pole, probably at least 150 meters from where I was standing.

And a 100% crop:

I feel somewhat encouraged with the results, but I wish I didn't have to resort to such measures to coax decent images from the raw files. And even shooting with a 24.3mp digital camera, I still don't think I've captured the resolution I did with my old Sigma shooting slide film.

Kei · Joined: 08 Jan 2015 Posts: 142 Location: S. Wales UK

RTI · Joined: 15 Jul 2011 Posts: 282 Location: Moldova, Chisinau

480sparky · Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 355 Location: Iowa

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

kryss · Expire: 2017-09-18

Random shots with mine,shot in raw converted to jpeg for forum no PP at all,was slightly windy.Shot with Sony a6000 on tripod and used macro focusing rail + focus assist + 10 second shutter delay.

Distance varied from 100yards-500yards

WNG555 · Joined: 18 Dec 2014 Posts: 784 Location: Arrid-Zone-A, USA

Well, I found another one for a 2nd go. This time picked up locally for $45. Belonged to a departed audubon member.

It's an off-white finish version, with the locking knob tripod collar and plastic filter holder. Minolta SR mount.
Ser. # 1007151

Got the case and extra filters too. Some scratches to the lens hood and a small distressed section of the focus grip. It got folded back from storing the hood and probably not used in decades.
Trying to reshape it with some heat.

Internals appear very clean. Initial shots are an improvement over the last one. Wink

I notice this lens has some vignetting. And the longer distance images do have some graininess like shown in cooltouch's samples.
Closer distance shots are better, but isn't as sharp as BeardsAreBest's results.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Well, WNG555, if you can show us some example pics, I'd be interested. Do you really mean vignetting, or is it more of a hot spot. My old Sigma 600 would show a significant hot spot in many images I took with it. Here's an example. Two Hawker Sea Furies taking off at the Modesto Airshow, back during the mid-1980s:

Out of focus donuts are small and only slightly evident because of the distance from the camera.

BTW, I put mine on eBay. I decided to stop messing around with it and just sell it. If I knew how to collimate one of these lenses, I'd keep it and give it a try, but I don't. I don't know if it is even possible to collimate one of these lenses after they were assembled at the factory.

WNG555 · Joined: 18 Dec 2014 Posts: 784 Location: Arrid-Zone-A, USA

Michael,

Yes, it resembles vignetting so I just labeled it as such, but it's just like your airshow shot. BTW, a nice capture.

I'll try to get some up later.

WNG555 · Joined: 18 Dec 2014 Posts: 784 Location: Arrid-Zone-A, USA

A couple test shots. It's been hellishly hot here lately, so the heated air may be hampering some sharpness. But overall, it doesn't measure up to the Tamron 500 or the better samples posted here.

Haven't yet opened this one up to check for haze.

DSC05981_Sigma 600mm f8 by wNG 555, on Flickr

DSC05979_Sigma 600mm f8 by wNG 555, on Flickr

DSC05973_Sigma 600mm f8 by wNG 555, on Flickr

DSC05972_Sigma 600mm f8 by wNG 555, on Flickr

DSC05971_Sigma 600mm f8 by wNG 555, on Flickr

DSC05811_Sigma 600mm f8 by wNG 555, on Flickr

DSC05807_Sigma 600mm f8 by wNG 555, on Flickr

DSC05806_Sigma 600mm f8 by wNG 555, on Flickr

DSC05804_Sigma 600mm f8 by wNG 555, on Flickr

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Atmospheric turbulence or no, I can tell just by looking at a few of your photos that your Sigma is better than mine. One thing, though, when I click on them to see if I can see them at higher resolutions, I'm transferred to a Flickr "private" page. You might want to double check your settings -- that is, if you don't intend for these photos to be labeled as "private" over at Flickr. I have an account over there and anyone can see my images.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/11308754@N08/

WNG555 · Joined: 18 Dec 2014 Posts: 784 Location: Arrid-Zone-A, USA

Ooops! my bad. I usually default it to private when uploading, then change the ones I want. I missed these. Uploadr beta has been giving me fits since I 'upgraded' to it. Razz

Should have access now.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Thanks for making that change. Yeah, I gotta say that, after looking at the larger images over at Flickr, that I would regard your 600 as one of the good ones. Those images definitely look fine to me.

How far off would you say those mountains are? 25 -- 30 miles? Maybe more? Accounting for atmospheric haze, which is evident and attenuating the lens's resolution by a no-doubt significant amount, there's still an impressive amount of detail evident in that photo. I'd like to see that same shot on a cold winter morning or after a rainstorm when there's no haze in the air. I'll betcha the amount of detail you'll get will surprise you.

WNG555 · Joined: 18 Dec 2014 Posts: 784 Location: Arrid-Zone-A, USA

The mountain is 15-16 miles away. None of the shots were manipulated, just SOOC. Given we're at New Moon, must wait til it's out for a Moon shoot. I inspected the interior with a LED light and can see the secondary mirror is clear, and no edge rot to the primary mirror.
The posted shots were taken with and without the normal filter attached. No visible difference I can see.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

I ran across a mention today regarding rear filters and it was claimed that they are a necessary part of the light path -- but all they typically do is change the point of focus. However, with a big tele like the Sigma, this doesn't matter since it has such a wide range beyond infinity. That is, if the point of focus is moved back, it isn't gonna matter with a long tele that has extra focus room beyond infinity. Or so it was explained.

So, yeah, that's probably why it didn't make a difference in sharpness with your Sigma. The focus point may have changed slghtly, but that's all.