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rubber peeling Sony A7II
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2024 4:16 pm    Post subject: rubber peeling Sony A7II Reply with quote
Suddenly just happened, haven't noticed anything till now, so it could be that rubber is peeling off without any specific reason; my son's XT1 it's going through the same thing, so I'd appreciate an advice on how to deal with this issue, thanks


PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2024 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
You may be able to find replacement skins or you can cut them from a large piece yourself?


https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fshopee.vn%2FMi%25E1%25BA%25BFng-d%25C3%25A1n-da-thay-th%25E1%25BA%25BF-cho-Sony-A72-A7-mark-II-A7R2-A7S2...-i.92956145.25803432013&psig=AOvVaw2mv6GXgS0KPZXPrH5Y3qdu&ust=1732466840107000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBcQjhxqGAoTCPiNwoH08okDFQAAAAAdAAAAABCAAQ


PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2024 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
i found this post, it is accessible but once the page is loaded, there´s an issue with it
https://web.archive.org/web/20181128023244%20/http://www.sungparkphotography.com:80/blog/2017/3/23/sony-a7rii-grip-rubber-replacement-diy-EHJnu
Anyway, my interest right now it is not to change the whole rubber grip, but just try to fix the part that is peeling off.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2024 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bad idea? Contact cement-filled hypodermic needle squirt underneath let dry then press?


PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2024 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
Bad idea? Contact cement-filled hypodermic needle squirt underneath let dry then press?


i´ve seen many using super glue, I´m not sure if that would be the best idea; i did use cement contact previously some time ago, maybe there would be a specific brand type nowadays ?


PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd expect super glue to damage this rubber. In any case, it happened with one of my cameras. That part takes some friction when grabbing/holding the camera. I choose not to let it bother me, for now.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2024 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:
You may be able to find replacement skins or you can cut them from a large piece yourself?

pic

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fshopee.vn%2FMi%25E1%25BA%25BFng-d%25C3%25A1n-da-thay-th%25E1%25BA%25BF-cho-Sony-A72-A7-mark-II-A7R2-A7S2...-i.92956145.25803432013&psig=AOvVaw2mv6GXgS0KPZXPrH5Y3qdu&ust=1732466840107000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBcQjhxqGAoTCPiNwoH08okDFQAAAAAdAAAAABCAAQ


@Calvin83 -- link doesn't work for me. Plus there's a LOT of tracking, beginning with the Google redirect. Shoppee requires an account. Is there another link please? Smile


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2024 12:05 am    Post subject: Re: rubber peeling Sony A7II Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:
rubber is peeling off without any specific reason;


Well, but what other you should expect from so cheaply stuff?


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2024 1:55 am    Post subject: Re: rubber peeling Sony A7II Reply with quote
LittleAlex wrote:
kiddo wrote:
rubber is peeling off without any specific reason;


Well, but what other you should expect from so cheaply stuff?


i don´t know what is it cheap for your meaning, the sony A7II was´t the cheapest camera at the time i`ve bought it, otoh i do have other cameras topcor super D, x700,exakta varexII (just to name few of them) that are just like new, with plenty more years. I guess I had higher expectations from a modern camera that didn´t sell cheap at it´s time, besides it happens to other camera brands like xt1 , so makers do have acces to much better technology but are choosing poor materials .


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2024 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
calvin83 wrote:
You may be able to find replacement skins or you can cut them from a large piece yourself?

pic

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fshopee.vn%2FMi%25E1%25BA%25BFng-d%25C3%25A1n-da-thay-th%25E1%25BA%25BF-cho-Sony-A72-A7-mark-II-A7R2-A7S2...-i.92956145.25803432013&psig=AOvVaw2mv6GXgS0KPZXPrH5Y3qdu&ust=1732466840107000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBcQjhxqGAoTCPiNwoH08okDFQAAAAAdAAAAABCAAQ


@Calvin83 -- link doesn't work for me. Plus there's a LOT of tracking, beginning with the Google redirect. Shoppee requires an account. Is there another link please? Smile

No other link i can provide. The A7II is too old which most sellers don't stock parts.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2024 7:16 am    Post subject: Re: rubber peeling Sony A7II Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:
LittleAlex wrote:
kiddo wrote:
rubber is peeling off without any specific reason;


Well, but what other you should expect from so cheaply stuff?


i don´t know what is it cheap for your meaning.


I really am mocking, of course. Laugh 1

But the very same problem I discovered with my Phase One equipment. Which cost was at least ten times more in its time.

kiddo wrote:
I guess I had higher expectations from a modern camera that didn´t sell cheap at it´s time.


In this kind of situation any russian speaking one will immediately quote the following place from the very popular there comic book:


- “Give me my money,” he lisped, “I’m completely poor!” I haven't been to a bathhouse for a year! I'm old! Girls don't like me!
- “Contact the World League for Sexual Reform,” (Weltliga für Sexualreform) said Bender. - Maybe they can help there. (c)

https://youtu.be/L4Jsij6eLsA?si=edIHsKhZ4mfb9UoC


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2024 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
Bad idea? Contact cement-filled hypodermic needle squirt underneath let dry then press?


I would second trying contact cement.

Many camera repair manuals mention Pliobond as the contact adhesive used for pleather and rubber trim:

https://hannarubbercompany.com/adhesives/pliobond/
https://www.micro-tools.com/collections/adhesives/products/p-351-f

EVO-STIK Impact contact cement is easier to find on Amazon and in hardware stores.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2024 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
RokkorDoctor wrote:
visualopsins wrote:
Bad idea? Contact cement-filled hypodermic needle squirt underneath let dry then press?


I would second trying contact cement.

Many camera repair manuals mention Pliobond as the contact adhesive used for pleather and rubber trim:

https://hannarubbercompany.com/adhesives/pliobond/
https://www.micro-tools.com/collections/adhesives/products/p-351-f

EVO-STIK Impact contact cement is easier to find on Amazon and in hardware stores.


Thanks, I will order Pliobond and give it a try, I did use a similar one for the 80cm rokkor leather case, but these modern plastics that makers are using nowadays are different than before. Besides, I might need to get a rubber case for the body , but they are pretty ugly and don't seem to cover the whole body neither (edges and critical parts)


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2024 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Depending on the chemistry of your skin stemming from your genetics, its oils can cause the rubber on certain modern cameras to expand and release from the underlying plastic.

I have acidic/oily skin, and have had this sort of problem particularly on the rubber of Panasonic Lumix cameras. Teh rubber actually expands/deforms a bit from the oils, meaning it's nearly impossible to restore a suitable bond once it's separated, so replacement is typically a preferred option.

Incidentally, my skin also tends to leave shiny/worn spots on plastic components such as computer keyboards, mice, steering wheels, etc. that looks very similar to what is going on at the corner of your camera in your pics. My grandmother had this problem, too, although others in my family do not, presumably because of different skin types. Since both you and your son are having this problem, I imagine he inherited similar skin from you.

As far as parts go, replacement rubber for a lot of modern cameras is pretty widely available on the Chinese marketplace site AliExpress.

As mentioned, since the A7ii is a bit older, it might be somewhat harder to find those particular parts, but here, for example, are replacement grips for the A7iii (not sure if interchangeable with the A7ii):
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256801462598322.html

For the A7ii, an entire rear replacement plate with grips in place is available here:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255800267092371.html

Here's the corner and slot cover:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805125200436.html

For the XT-1, here's a whole set with adhesive backings:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805046841964.html

Last edited by BrianSVP on Mon Nov 25, 2024 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2024 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
BrianSVP wrote:
Depending on the chemistry of your skin stemming from your genetics, its oils can cause the rubber on certain modern cameras to expand and release from the underlying plastic.

I have acidic/oily skin, and have had this sort of problem particularly on the rubber of Panasonic Lumix cameras. Teh rubber actually expands/deforms a bit from the oils, meaning it's nearly impossible to restore a suitable bond once it's separated, so replacement is typically a preferred option.

Incidentally, my skin also tends to leave shiny/worn spots on plastic components such as computer keyboards, mice, steering wheels, etc. that looks very similar to what is going on at the corner of your camera in your pics. My grandmother had this problem, too, although others in my family do not, presumably because of different skin types. Since both you and your son are having this problem, I imagine he inherited similar skin from you.

As far as parts go, replacement rubber for a lot of modern cameras is pretty widely available on the Chinese marketplace site AliExpress.

As mentioned, since the A7ii is a bit older, it might be somewhat harder to find those particular parts, but here, for example, are replacement grips for the A7iii (not sure if interchangeable with the A7ii):
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256801462598322.html

For the A7ii, an entire rear replacement plate with grips in place is available here:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804034096377.html

Here's the corner and slot cover:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805125200436.html

For the XT-1, here's a whole set with adhesive backings:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805046841964.html


thank you for your answer, i was investigating this issue like ``rubber expansion moisture`` and there`s such an answer coming out:


While temperature effects on rubber hardness are more widely recognized, humidity also plays a crucial yet often underestimated role which may have different effects. Rubber materials can absorb moisture from the environment, which may affect physical properties. Porous materials with open cell structures may have more severe effects.

High humidity levels can cause rubber to swell as it absorbs water, resulting in a decrease in hardness. On the other hand, low humidity conditions can lead to the drying out of rubber materials, causing them to harden over time. Both may have adverse effects on physical properties or performance of rubber materials.

It seems there are different type of rubbers, many of them used in the camera bodies might be the same type (my son`s XT1 i bought second hand it already had the issue already) , share same problem , all bad with moisture . I do admit we`re using the camera outside summer and winter lol, so i believe main issue is moisture and adhesives used . Moisture(taking out the camera from inside the car to the mountain 5-10 degrees outside definetely would produce moisture) because of the slow expansion, allow to increase the volume of that rubber, adhesive problem because literally the rubber is coming off very easy (nothing gets stuck to the plastic part) , so if it would be a good adhesive , the rubber would brake in pieces but stick to the plastic part. Now that plastic part it seems to be a TPU (i might be wrong though?) and if thats correct a traditional contact cement it wouldn`t work properly, i did find some very specific adhesives used in the shoes industry , specific for using on TPU and any other materials like rubber, leather foams etc. So I`d dare to say these cameras are not moisture resistent over the time (there are some other users complaining about this issue on youtube) even though sellers do admit they would be . They might be obsolescense programmed on their materials also, so whoever wants to avoid this issue , just don`t take your camera outside when there`s moisture, or maybe have a special case to protect it.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2024 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My used D-810 did this to me (r/h thumb-grip on the rear) shortly after I got it home.

Haven't ben able to find anything that will adhere to the "rubber"- not even contact cement.
Run the camera without it now, with no problems. It just looks a bit on the rough side.
I think the previous owner had problems in this area, and de-conditioned the surface of the rubber to where it won't adhere to anything. Probably superglue by the looks of the camera body metal.
I've learned to live with the grip off the camera.

-D.S.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2024 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Most of these rubber grips on modern cameras are held on by die-cut double-sided adhesive film sheets. When the rubber comes off, the adhesive sheet typically stays attached to the polycarbonate body, and merely attempting to put cement in between the rubber and it won't result in a suitable bond.

If you want to try cement, you need to remove the rubber from the body and scrape off the film and remove any residue with a solvent, e.g. naphtha or alcohol, before gluing. You'll have the most success with something like "Shoe Goo" that is specifically designed for binding rubber that is exposed to moisture, oil, and temperature swings. Pliobond worked great on metal/leatherette combos as found in old bodies, but is poor in this application.

Not sure of the availability of Shoe Goo in other countries, but it can be found in most big box stores in the U.S."
https://eclecticproducts.com/product/shoe-goo/

You might have more success in getting some 3M double-sided tape and cutting it to fit the various curves, but the bespoke cut adhesive sheets sold with the replacement rubbers always work the best.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2024 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
BrianSVP wrote:
Most of these rubber grips on modern cameras are held on by die-cut double-sided adhesive film sheets. When the rubber comes off, the adhesive sheet typically stays attached to the polycarbonate body, and merely attempting to put cement in between the rubber and it won't result in a suitable bond.

If you want to try cement, you need to remove the rubber from the body and scrape off the film and remove any residue with a solvent, e.g. naphtha or alcohol, before gluing. You'll have the most success with something like "Shoe Goo" that is specifically designed for binding rubber that is exposed to moisture, oil, and temperature swings. Pliobond worked great on metal/leatherette combos as found in old bodies, but is poor in this application.

Not sure of the availability of Shoe Goo in other countries, but it can be found in most big box stores in the U.S."
https://eclecticproducts.com/product/shoe-goo/

You might have more success in getting some 3M double-sided tape and cutting it to fit the various curves, but the bespoke cut adhesive sheets sold with the replacement rubbers always work the best.


That's a very good point, and then contact adhesive isn't going to work. I believe those adhesive films are often a pressure-activated acrylic based adhesive. Those adhesives can be a pain in the butt to remove, and the naphtha and isopropyl alcohol you already mentioned seem to be best at removing it without damaging the underlying plastic. Acetone is also very effective but almost certainly will do significant irreversible damage to the plastic underneath.

If using double-sided tape for the repair I would advise to use one with a plasticiser-resistant acrylic adhesive, usually one designed for vinyl flooring. Regular double-sided adhesive tape will potentially turn to a sticky mess after a few weeks from the plasticisers in the "rubber", especially if the "rubber" is a vinyl-based material.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2024 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you all , I'm located in Europe, so I'd have to stick with whatever I could find locally, double sided tape I've tried before (2 of them) weren't the best ones, is there any specific 3M I should get ?


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2024 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
3M 300LSE is the one that's recommended for this application.

Here in the U.S., Amazon sells it for about 5 dollars a sheet:

https://www.amazon.com/300lse-Adhesive-Transfer-Attaching-Digitizers/dp/B00LWFO5R6

Rolls are about $15:
https://www.amazon.com/300LSE-Transparent-Resistant-Waterproof-Electronics/dp/B0CVCB6YR5

kiddo wrote:
Thank you all , I'm located in Europe, so I'd have to stick with whatever I could find locally, double sided tape I've tried before (2 of them) weren't the best ones, is there any specific 3M I should get ?


If you can stomach the added expense, I'd still recommend considering a replacement of all the rubber, though, as in your pictures it looks like it's pretty significantly expanded and won't sit right in the cutouts on the polycarbonate body. Especially for the XT-1, since the rubbers for it are quite a bit more affordable.

Perhaps you can just change trim the edges of the ones for the A7ii? Just make sure you clean the rubber surface well with alcohol first before applying the tape, since if some of the plasticizers have wept to the surface, it might not get a good bond otherwise.


EDIT: One more addendum,
According to this guy, who put up one of the early regripping tutorials for this camera:
Quote:
the A7ii rubber grip appears to be integrated into the back plate.

Added bonus of this DIY is that if you have found that your memory card door is broken or sticky (mine was always a little weird after getting rained on for a couple hours), then replacing the rubber grip will also replace the memory card door.


The replacement rear plate isn't cheap at about $70, but it looks like that might be the best option to restore you to as close to like-new as you can get.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2024 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
BrianSVP wrote:
Most of these rubber grips on modern cameras are held on by die-cut double-sided adhesive film sheets. When the rubber comes off, the adhesive sheet typically stays attached to the polycarbonate body, and merely attempting to put cement in between the rubber and it won't result in a suitable bond.

If you want to try cement, you need to remove the rubber from the body and scrape off the film and remove any residue with a solvent, e.g. naphtha or alcohol, before gluing. You'll have the most success with something like "Shoe Goo" that is specifically designed for binding rubber that is exposed to moisture, oil, and temperature swings. Pliobond worked great on metal/leatherette combos as found in old bodies, but is poor in this application.

Not sure of the availability of Shoe Goo in other countries, but it can be found in most big box stores in the U.S."
https://eclecticproducts.com/product/shoe-goo/

You might have more success in getting some 3M double-sided tape and cutting it to fit the various curves, but the bespoke cut adhesive sheets sold with the replacement rubbers always work the best.


Absolutely right, contact cement will not work unless every trace of the old adhesive - whatever it might be - is removed. I've re glued most types of camera covers with contact cement, Evo Stik usually, but I always scrape off EVERY trace of adhesive from BOTH surfaces. It's usually easier to remove the part and clean thoroughly, then wipe with IPA before gluing back on. If the grip / leatherette is distorted I 'clamp' it firmly in place with good electrical insulating tape that stretches. Any mess can be easily cleaned afterwards. Contact adhesive residue will just peel off when dry.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2024 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ok guys, thank you all, i have just ordered the specific 3M double sided tape and Pliobond also , together with a set of 4 jis screwdrivers - the handgrip rubber set for fuji xt1 does it imply same procedure as sony, dismantling the body? if so, it could be a good idea to buy the whole kit a fit in the new one, with sony, as there are not enough informatin , i will try to use the double tape first, in case it wouldn`t last to long, just use pliobond
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