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Rikenon 50mm f2 question
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:08 am    Post subject: Rikenon 50mm f2 question Reply with quote
Hello! I got the winning bid on a m42 Rikenon 50mm f2 with rubber grip.
This is not the lens I was looking for. The one I actually wanted is a XR Rikenon 50mm f2.

Does anyone know how similar they are?
If the optical design is identical I don't need the XR version.

My favorite 50mm f2 is the Auto Yashinon 5cm f2. I also have both a Minolta MD and MC 50mm f2 that are good.

My intention is to get the f2 versions of XR rikenon, Yashica ML, Pancolar and Cosinon to see which I like the most.

I also have a Summitar and Leonon on my radar.

Do you know any other recommendations to look up?


PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nikkor Ai 50mm f2 or Jupiter 8 might be good options as well.

Interested to listen about your findings and which lenses you liked or disliked and why.

Have fun!


PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think those Rikenon 50's were all made by Cosina to spec (They aren't the same as Cosinons or other rebrands like Revuenon) The M42 ones look like Cosina's and the K-mounts have their serial number on the aperture ring just like K-mount Cosina made lenses. Both Auto-Rikenon and XR Rikenon are 6/5 designs but that doesn't mean they are the same. XR Rikenons main difference is probably the update coatings (apart from being K-mount instead of m42).


PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
I think those Rikenon 50's were all made by Cosina to spec (They aren't the same as Cosinons or other rebrands like Revuenon) The M42 ones look like Cosina's and the K-mounts have their serial number on the aperture ring just like K-mount Cosina made lenses. Both Auto-Rikenon and XR Rikenon are 6/5 designs but that doesn't mean they are the same. XR Rikenons main difference is probably the update coatings (apart from being K-mount instead of m42).


Yeah I figured the only way to know for sure is to get a XR version too. But in some cases there are documentation so I thought it was worth to ask.
Isn't the m42 50mm f/1.7 made by Cosina? It makes sense that the f2 is also made by them.

Yes the coating looks more advanced on the XR.

pabeu wrote:
Nikkor Ai 50mm f2 or Jupiter 8 might be good options as well.

Interested to listen about your findings and which lenses you liked or disliked and why.

Have fun!


Thanks, I will look at samples from the Nikkor Ai. I have only been looking at samples from the Nikkor-HC 50mm, seems interesting.

I forgot to mention that I have a Jupiter 8M, It has low contrast but I think it's due to the diy adapter it is mounted on. For me it works best as a bokeh only lens.

It will probably take time to gather them all so it could be a long wait.

Unfortunately I had both a Yashica ML and Pancolar but they had issues and had to be sold.


There is something special with f/2 and even f/1.9 I think. A good balance of depth of field for portrait distance and bokeh.

The lenses mentioned will help to discover these things.


PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I recently posted some test images from the RX version of Rikenon 2/50 which renders very well both in colour and BW. I imagine this is the quality you are in search for.

Pentax forums states that "The non-XR lenses have a different optical and physical design and may be distinguished by the lack of the "XR" designation on the lens face." I read similar assertions in some other sources, one of them resuming the difference from the latest models in the following way: "Some Japanese web pages stated that this lens (MFD 0.45m) and the version immediately after, the XR Rikenon 50mm f/2 L (MFD 0.6m) were made by Tomioka (富岡光学), a maker of considerable repute, while the later versions (the XR Rikenon 50mm f/2 S, P and the plain Rikenon without XR) were made by Nitto Optics (日東光学)."

If you watch some online available shots from the later (not XR) models, you still find the same very pleasant rendering, with creamy bokeh and sharp in-focus, like for example here.

I presume you'd be pretty happy with your new aquisition.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
alex ph wrote:
I recently posted some test images from the RX version of Rikenon 2/50 which renders very well both in colour and BW. I imagine this is the quality you are in search for.

Pentax forums states that "The non-XR lenses have a different optical and physical design and may be distinguished by the lack of the "XR" designation on the lens face." I read similar assertions in some other sources, one of them resuming the difference from the latest models in the following way: "Some Japanese web pages stated that this lens (MFD 0.45m) and the version immediately after, the XR Rikenon 50mm f/2 L (MFD 0.6m) were made by Tomioka (富岡光学), a maker of considerable repute, while the later versions (the XR Rikenon 50mm f/2 S, P and the plain Rikenon without XR) were made by Nitto Optics (日東光学)."

If you watch some online available shots from the later (not XR) models, you still find the same very pleasant rendering, with creamy bokeh and sharp in-focus, like for example here.

I presume you'd be pretty happy with your new aquisition.


Thanks that is some interesting info.

I've read about the lenses following the first XR having more plastic and worse MFD so I'm less tempted by them. That link mentioning Nitto Optics was new information to me, don't think I've heard about that company before.

Those are some good samples, very pleasant rendering. Yes that is what I like.

The hexagonal bokeh shape stopped down looks good too. Some want as many blades as possible but I think 6 is perfect amount.

Yes I will use my older Rikenon for normal shooting for a while to see if it delivers and upload the best samples here.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Have the XR lens but haven't used it since the film days. (I'll try post a pic of it tomorrow)
If it helps, back in the 90's, my boss who was a pro photographer and Leica nut once viewed a pic I enlarged to 8x10. It was taken on a Ricoh KR5 Super II with 50mm f2.
He started rambling how only with Leica you can get such quality blah blah blah. He didn't realize I didn't go out with one of his cameras as he thought and I had taken a consumer Ricoh.

At some point I will use film again and I'm really looking forward to giving the lens some work.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The L and the S version are plastic and much less nice than the XR version without extra letter. I guess they were made to sell cheaper kits. Some people like the L for it's lower contrast wide open for portraiture. It could be another manufacturer made the plasticky versions. As for Tomioka, I don't think they ever made K-mount lenses. But many Tomioka designs ended up with Cosina later on. So there may be Tomioka DNA in them. Although I think the lens was specifically calculated for Ricoh. I think the optics are the same across plastic and metal version. It's just tolerances were a bit wider in the plastic ones causing a bit of contrast loss.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ricon wrote:
Have the XR lens but haven't used it since the film days. (I'll try post a pic of it tomorrow)
If it helps, back in the 90's, my boss who was a pro photographer and Leica nut once viewed a pic I enlarged to 8x10. It was taken on a Ricoh KR5 Super II with 50mm f2.
He started rambling how only with Leica you can get such quality blah blah blah. He didn't realize I didn't go out with one of his cameras as he thought and I had taken a consumer Ricoh.

At some point I will use film again and I'm really looking forward to giving the lens some work.


I've been a Leica guy myself, but I don't remember being such a moron Laugh 1


PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ultrapix wrote:
Ricon wrote:
Have the XR lens but haven't used it since the film days. (I'll try post a pic of it tomorrow)
If it helps, back in the 90's, my boss who was a pro photographer and Leica nut once viewed a pic I enlarged to 8x10. It was taken on a Ricoh KR5 Super II with 50mm f2.
He started rambling how only with Leica you can get such quality blah blah blah. He didn't realize I didn't go out with one of his cameras as he thought and I had taken a consumer Ricoh.

At some point I will use film again and I'm really looking forward to giving the lens some work.


I've been a Leica guy myself, but I don't remember being such a moron Laugh 1


Oh, think I made a mistake, mine is the lens below it looks like. The XR is the rubber one I think. Not sure if mine is more Leica-ish than the XR. lol

https://www.pentaxforums.com/userreviews/ricoh-rikenon-50mm-f-2.html


PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
pabeu wrote:
Nikkor Ai 50mm f2 or Jupiter 8 might be good options as well.


These are the two that jump to mind for me as well.

I have a Nikkor HC Auto 50 2 and a Nikkor Ai 50 2. They're both excellent, but if I had to choose one I'd pick the Ai version.

You could try a Sonnar 50 f2 but they're more expensive than the Jupiter-8s.

There's also the Pancolar 50 f/2.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here is mine. Has skylight filter attached. Realize now it's not the one OP was looking for. Not an expert on my Ricoh lenses. This is a very good lens though.





PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: Rikenon 50mm f2 question Reply with quote
blotafton wrote:
Do you know any other recommendations to look up?


I'd suggest one of the Pentax line-up, say SMC Pentax-M 50mm f/2


PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Auto Mamiya/Sekor 50mm 1:2 is also a very nice lens (if not stiff focussing as Mamiya fifties tend to be).


PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: Rikenon 50mm f2 question Reply with quote
kypfer wrote:
blotafton wrote:
Do you know any other recommendations to look up?


I'd suggest one of the Pentax line-up, say SMC Pentax-M 50mm f/2


I didn't like it at all


PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Rikenon 50mm f2 question Reply with quote
Ultrapix wrote:
kypfer wrote:
blotafton wrote:
Do you know any other recommendations to look up?


I'd suggest one of the Pentax line-up, say SMC Pentax-M 50mm f/2


I didn't like it at all


It is a rare 5 element design (design is rare, not the lens) Like they did away with the group in a 6/5 design and replaced it wit a very convex/cave element. A bit boring if you ask me.






This is the Pentax-m 50mm 1:1.7 from the same generation:


PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Rikenon 50mm f2 question Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
Ultrapix wrote:
kypfer wrote:
blotafton wrote:
Do you know any other recommendations to look up?


I'd suggest one of the Pentax line-up, say SMC Pentax-M 50mm f/2


I didn't like it at all


It is a rare 5 element design (design is rare, not the lens) Like they did away with the group in a 6/5 design and replaced it wit a very convex/cave element. A bit boring if you ask me.






Yes- combination Ultron front with simplified Biometar rear. Very nice.

Sorry for being late, I will give you a picture of the Rikenon's optical design from the booklet. I think there were a couple of eras of these lenses as has been discussed.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
KEO wrote:
pabeu wrote:
Nikkor Ai 50mm f2 or Jupiter 8 might be good options as well.


These are the two that jump to mind for me as well.

I have a Nikkor HC Auto 50 2 and a Nikkor Ai 50 2. They're both excellent, but if I had to choose one I'd pick the Ai version.

You could try a Sonnar 50 f2 but they're more expensive than the Jupiter-8s.

There's also the Pancolar 50 f/2.


Thanks, yes I already have a Jupiter 8m but have never really fallen for the Sonnar look. I'm not sure why. The close up bokeh shots have a certain charm though.

I will get a Pancolar when I find a good deal. The last one I got had Exakta mount and appeared to be in good shape but something was not right with the image quality so I will keep looking for a new one.


Ricon wrote:
Here is mine. Has skylight filter attached. Realize now it's not the one OP was looking for. Not an expert on my Ricoh lenses. This is a very good lens though.





Is this a newer version than the ones with XR labeling?

kypfer wrote:
blotafton wrote:
Do you know any other recommendations to look up?



I'd suggest one of the Pentax line-up, say SMC Pentax-M 50mm f/2


Thanks, I checked samples on flickr but did not see any that stood out.
If I had to choose one the Pentax M 50mm f/1.7 looks more interesting than the f/2.


D1N0 wrote:
The Auto Mamiya/Sekor 50mm 1:2 is also a very nice lens (if not stiff focussing as Mamiya fifties tend to be).


Seems like a sweet lens, I wonder if it has any connection to Yashica DX lineup.
I do have Mamiya Sekor CS 50mm f2 but no adapter for it. I should get one.

D1N0 wrote:
Ultrapix wrote:
kypfer wrote:
blotafton wrote:
Do you know any other recommendations to look up?


I'd suggest one of the Pentax line-up, say SMC Pentax-M 50mm f/2


I didn't like it at all


It is a rare 5 element design (design is rare, not the lens) Like they did away with the group in a 6/5 design and replaced it wit a very convex/cave element. A bit boring if you ask me.






This is the Pentax-m 50mm 1:1.7 from the same generation:


Interesting design choice, it reminds me of the X Fujinon 50mm f1.9 that also have 5 elements but a very different configuration.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Auto Rikenon in PK mount is a very capable lens - often called the "plastic fantastic"
Another lens you might like to look at is the Nikkor-S 50mm f2 which is a seven element design and a truly excellent performer
Tom


PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
The Auto Rikenon in PK mount is a very capable lens - often called the "plastic fantastic"
Another lens you might like to look at is the Nikkor-S 50mm f2 which is a seven element design and a truly excellent performer
Tom


Thanks! do you know if the Nikkor-S has the same optical design as the Nikkor-H? It's unique as far as I know.
I haven't done my Nikon home work Wink

Is there a good Nikon resource out there?

Edit.
It seems it is not the same design.
I like the samples found on flickr. I will look for one.

Last edited by blotafton on Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here it is!

I was a bit surprised to see 0.6m mfd. It is not an issue though if used on a helicoid adapter. But the pin needs to be pressed in for the aperture to work.

The focusing ring is a bit uneven but not terrible.

The aperture ring a bit heavy.

A quick test revealed that there are no optical problems.

#1


#2




Here it is with the competition




PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very similar to the xr Rikenon, same IR mark position and distance scale numbering. Cosina made I'd guess. It's just focussing in the opposite direction. The XR K mount focusses like Nikon and Pentax.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
blotafton wrote:
do you know if the Nikkor-S has the same optical design as the Nikkor-H? It's unique as far as I know.
I haven't done my Nikon home work Wink

Is there a good Nikon resource out there?


The H in Nikkor-H stands for "Hex" meaning 6 elements. Following that convention the Nikkor-S has 7 elements, Nikkor-Qs have 4, and Nikkor-Os have 8.

Bjørn Rørslett's site is excellent for Nikkor info (scroll down for lenses divided by focal length):

http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_surv.html

There's also a great site here for serial numbers and other information:

http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/serialno.html


PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
KEO wrote:
blotafton wrote:
do you know if the Nikkor-S has the same optical design as the Nikkor-H? It's unique as far as I know.
I haven't done my Nikon home work Wink

Is there a good Nikon resource out there?


The H in Nikkor-H stands for "Hex" meaning 6 elements. Following that convention the Nikkor-S has 7 elements, Nikkor-Qs have 4, and Nikkor-Os have 8.

Bjørn Rørslett's site is excellent for Nikkor info (scroll down for lenses divided by focal length):

http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_surv.html

There's also a great site here for serial numbers and other information:

http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/serialno.html


Much appreciated!


PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rikenon test shots.

Raw format, custom tone curves.



#1


#2


#3


#4


#5


#6


#7


#8
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