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connloyalist
Joined: 22 Jul 2020 Posts: 341 Location: the Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2024 4:45 pm Post subject: Rediscovering my own lenses: CZJ Sonnar 135mm f/4.0 |
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connloyalist wrote:
Over the past few years I have built up a bit of a collection of lenses (it provided a distraction during covid). Sometimes I go into my collection to re-test some lenses, look at them with a fresh eye.
Today I took out my Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 135mm f/4.0. This is a chrome (aluminum?) one, M42 mount. I knew it was really good, but I have quite a few 135mm lenses and I hadn't used it in a while.
I must say I am blown away all over again. Wow this thing is good. Even wide open. I have 135mm lenses that are 20 or 30 years newer and not as good as this one. What secret sauce did they use in making these? Why are many later lenses by other companies worse? Was it a patent thing? Or were newer lenses built to a price? Or f/4.0 wouldn't sell because of being a bit slower?
Same thing with my CZJ Biotar 58mm f/2.0. Such a good lens.
Regards, C. |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3132 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Rediscovering my own lenses: CZJ Sonnar 135mm f/4.0 |
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caspert79 wrote:
connloyalist wrote: |
Over the past few years I have built up a bit of a collection of lenses (it provided a distraction during covid). Sometimes I go into my collection to re-test some lenses, look at them with a fresh eye.
Today I took out my Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 135mm f/4.0. This is a chrome (aluminum?) one, M42 mount. I knew it was really good, but I have quite a few 135mm lenses and I hadn't used it in a while.
I must say I am blown away all over again. Wow this thing is good. Even wide open. I have 135mm lenses that are 20 or 30 years newer and not as good as this one. What secret sauce did they use in making these? Why are many later lenses by other companies worse? Was it a patent thing? Or were newer lenses built to a price? Or f/4.0 wouldn't sell because of being a bit slower?
Same thing with my CZJ Biotar 58mm f/2.0. Such a good lens.
Regards, C. |
Yeah those are great lenses. I have the later black version, but the IQ is quite insane. |
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DrBB
Joined: 26 Mar 2014 Posts: 101 Location: Croatia
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Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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DrBB wrote:
Great lens and, usually, great buy. I got 3 of them (2x silver and one black) for next to nothing (20eur or less). Also, easy to CLA with one word of warning - first element from back, on the inside has really soft coating, very easy to scratch. Learned the hard way |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3132 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
DrBB wrote: |
Great lens and, usually, great buy. I got 3 of them (2x silver and one black) for next to nothing (20eur or less). Also, easy to CLA with one word of warning - first element from back, on the inside has really soft coating, very easy to scratch. Learned the hard way |
And prone to decentering, at least the black one, including the later 135/3.5. |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3132 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
Here's an image made with the Sonnar 135/4 @ wide open setting on Sony A7RII; converted from RAW to jpeg; no additional post processing applied.
AusJena1354_2 by devoscasper, on Flickr
Here's a 100% crop:
AusJena1354_2crop by devoscasper, on Flickr
Detail rendering is excellent.
Here, a comparison against the Nikkor Ai 135mm f/2.8:
The Sonnar shows near perfect performance (including the far corners) wide open:
comparison by devoscasper, on Flickr
To be fair, it took a third Jena Sonnar before I had a well centered one.
Last edited by caspert79 on Sat Mar 09, 2024 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7555 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
It seems there are centering issues on the f/3.5 version. We may be able to find what will be the cause?
http://forum.mflenses.com/zeiss-jena-sonnar-135-4-t25653.html _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3132 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
In had centering issues with my first 135/4 as well; it might be a Jena thing. |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7555 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
caspert79 wrote: |
In had centering issues with my first 135/4 as well; it might be a Jena thing. |
I wonder where caused the de-centering? The mechanical design or the inaccurate of the parts or?
Jena 135/3.5 from here http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/CZJena/repmanczj-8.pdf _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3132 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
calvin83 wrote: |
caspert79 wrote: |
In had centering issues with my first 135/4 as well; it might be a Jena thing. |
I wonder where caused the de-centering? The mechanical design or the inaccurate of the parts or?
Jena 135/3.5 from here http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/CZJena/repmanczj-8.pdf |
I can only say they definitely don’t feel as well put together as for instance a Takumar. |
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BrianSVP
Joined: 09 Jun 2023 Posts: 335 Location: Philadelphia
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Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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BrianSVP wrote:
These are also 60+ year old lenses. A lot of them have been banged around and dropped. Most of the Jena lenses (and pretty much all pre-war European lenses and Soviet lenses up to the 1980s) have barrel components centered with external set screws.
These are much more susceptible to being thrown off by physical shocks than later designs.
caspert79 wrote: |
In had centering issues with my first 135/4 as well; it might be a Jena thing. |
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paulhofseth
Joined: 05 Mar 2011 Posts: 575 Location: Norway
Expire: 2018-06-28
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Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:07 am Post subject: |
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paulhofseth wrote:
yesterday I wanted to compare old and "new" design 180-200mms and took a few snaps at f8 with two 1950es m42 mount things; a schneider 200 and an Angenieux 180 in comparison with the much later180mm apochromatic Angenieux (C/Ymount) and Leitz R mount creations.
Contrast was clearly better on the newer ones, but after massaging the (Z-7) files, detail rendering was no better on the later devices. So small diameter and lower weight must be weighed against time to treat the results with levels and curves.
p. |
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kiddo
Joined: 29 Jun 2018 Posts: 1221
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Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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kiddo wrote:
paulhofseth wrote: |
yesterday I wanted to compare old and "new" design 180-200mms and took a few snaps at f8 with two 1950es m42 mount things; a schneider 200 and an Angenieux 180 in comparison with the much later180mm apochromatic Angenieux (C/Ymount) and Leitz R mount creations.
Contrast was clearly better on the newer ones, but after massaging the (Z-7) files, detail rendering was no better on the later devices. So small diameter and lower weight must be weighed against time to treat the results with levels and curves.
p. |
I guess Minolta apo 200mm 2.8 it's a different league vintage lens |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3132 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
Just a another few snapshots to show the IQ of the Sonnar, first the full image, then 100% crops:
AusJena1354_6 by devoscasper, on Flickr
AusJena1354_6crop by devoscasper, on Flickr
AusJena1354_5 by devoscasper, on Flickr
Check details around eyes. This is @ f/4, and a 100% crop of a 42+ mp image. Not bad!
AusJena1354_5crop by devoscasper, on Flickr
AusJena1354_4 by devoscasper, on Flickr
AusJena1354_4crop by devoscasper, on Flickr
I think the Sonnar 135/4 is one of the best steals out there. |
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DrBB
Joined: 26 Mar 2014 Posts: 101 Location: Croatia
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Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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DrBB wrote:
caspert79 wrote: |
Just a another few snapshots to show the IQ of the Sonnar, first the full image, then 100% crops:
...cut...cut...cut
I think the Sonnar 135/4 is one of the best steals out there. |
yup, it certainly is, together with it's f3.5 brother. Although, there are so many great 135mm lenses, it's hard to decide which one to bring sometimes |
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