Please advise on a 200mm or 300mm lens for motor sports

DigiChromeEd · Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 3462 Location: Northern Ireland

I attempted motor sports photography for the first time recently and quickly realized that I need longer optics to fill the frame with the action.
I need at least a 200mm and possibly a 300mm lens depending on how close I can safely get to the track. My cameras are a Canon EOS5DMKII and Sony Alpha A6000 so a lens that can be adapted to both mounts would be beneficial. I think an AF lens will be out of my price range so MF it will have to be. A steep learning curve lies ahead to follow focus with a manual lens!

The shots below are my first attempt albeit taken with a AF 24-105mm lens and heavily cropped.

Anatol_M · Joined: 23 Dec 2017 Posts: 34

Get the Canon nFD 200m f4 (IF version). Lightweight, really cheap (something like $50), very good IQ and rather easy to focus thanks to IF. Used it on dirt bike trial recently exactly on A6000, so consider it a 300mm)
Will not adapt to EF, unfortunately.

marcusBMG · Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1319 Location: Conwy N Wales

You have the advantage that a canon and a mirrorless are the most flexible cameras for adapting lenses to (except old canon fd to new canon EFS!). That gives you lots of possibilities.
A zoom could well be more flexible than a prime for your intended use. You could try to find a tokina ATX 100-300mm f4: a high quality lens and faster than most, specifically at the longer focal lengths, but not many around and usually not the cheapest. Another highly rated x-300mm zoom is the interesting and versatile Tamron adaptall 60-300mm, examples of this lens are easily found esp in UK. Note that a cheap ~66mm ID tripod mount ring easily found on fleabay from china, can be fitted in front of the aperture ring with a bit of packing or diy at the cost of restricting zoom to ~120-300mm, for use with eg a monopod.
If you search my posts here you can find pics with both lenses.

kypfer · Joined: 27 Sep 2017 Posts: 523 Location: Jersey C.I.

Recommendation based on personal experience ... for manual focus you'll need a "one-touch" zoom, trombone action to zoom, twist to focus. Try to find a Tamron Adaptall-II #104A 75-250mm with appropriate adaptor (mine's not for sale!) ... with a bit of practice it can be quicker than a lot of autofocus lenses! Push out for wider-angle, to find your subject, then pull in to frame and twist to focus at the same time. It takes longer to talk about it than to actually do it!

Do note, some one-touch zooms push out for telephoto and pull in for wider angle, I find this rather counter-intuitive!

Good luck Smile

tgm · Joined: 26 Jul 2014 Posts: 16 Location: Denmark

I have these ~200mm lenses:
Tele-Takumar 200/5.6 (m42) 5/5
Konica Hexanon AR200/3.5 Green-AE (konica-ar) 5/4
Isco-GÃ¶ttingen Tele-Westanar 180/4 (exa) Sonnar? 4/3?
Tokina RMC 200/3.5 (c/y) ?/?
Tokina RMC 80-200/4 (minolta md) 12/9
Rolleinar-MC 200/3.5 4/4 (qbm) (Same lens as Mamiya-Sekor, Voigtlander Color-Dynarex AR)
Pentacon 200/4 15-blade preset (exa) 5/5 (Meyer-Optik GÃ¶rlitz Orestegor successor)

On aps-c Iâ€™ll rate them this way.
For anything that moves Iâ€™ll use the RMC 200/3.5 easy to use, small lightweight and least hard to focus. Second pick the RMC 80-200. The konica is a better lens, but also heavier and not so easy to use. Takumar 200/5.6 fun to use weak/low contast. Rolleinar not as sharp as either of the RMCâ€™s, maybe just the one I have(?). The Pentacon is nice, just that the RMC is better. The Tele-Westanar 180 front heavy and a bit difficult to use.

marcusBMG · Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1319 Location: Conwy N Wales

kypfer · Joined: 27 Sep 2017 Posts: 523 Location: Jersey C.I.

marcusBMG · Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1319 Location: Conwy N Wales

sorry - TM = tripod mount, tp = telephoto
I've tried numerous lenses with the 01F, never been satisfied that the results are worth it - that's really an assessment of all 2x tc's actually in this age of easy digital scrutiny, manipulation, cropping, resizing...

Tervueren · Expire: 2014-11-08

Hi Ed, I always got on well with the Minolta 300/4 but maybe the Tair photo-sniper could work well for what you want, I've only suggested 300s because you can always step backwards Laugh 1

kypfer · Joined: 27 Sep 2017 Posts: 523 Location: Jersey C.I.

Tervueren · Expire: 2014-11-08

Kypfer, The Tair Photosniper can be really awkward to use at speed, with it's wheel focus under the lens. Definitely an acquired skill-set!
Certainly in the automotive circumstances I've been photographing in, stepping back is usually not an option. Having managed to get to the front of the crowd I really want to stay there!

Agree regds the sniper but all very well getting to the front as long as your lens matches distance from track when you get there lol, the point I was making was that you may not need to be on top of the action

marcusBMG · Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1319 Location: Conwy N Wales

I only have the tair 300A, the focus on that is a helicoid but it's a weighty lens with a long throw and normally the action becomes heavier/stickier with age - not conducive.
Having a play with the full photosniper set up with a stock now that would be interesting. That's how sports photograhers etc did it back in the sixties with eg the novoflex. I've had some good results from my novoflex 400mm follow focus but really nailing the focus in action is ticklish, those efforts have typically been from much more static situations where I have the lens on eg a bean bag and used magnification to tweak the focus. Could be an interesting challenge, trying to get good with a photosniper...

The adaptall SP 300mm 54B has a relatively short focus throw and is a contender for the best legacy MF 300mm f5.6.

Are you reckoning to mostly use the lenses wide open Ed, since adapted lenses to canon/sony won't have aperture connections?

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

First of all, you've already picked up on the basics. You're doing decent pans and you're shooting with slow enough shutter speeds where you're getting some wheel blur. A little bit more blur would be better, but you're on the right track.

Back in my MF film days I freelanced as a motorsports photographer. I had a few lenses that got the most use. But I was a Canon FD shooter back then, so Canon FD won't work for your EOS setup. Not to be concerned, however, because there are good substitutes.

First thing -- you can get really outstanding results just using a good zoom. My favorite long zoom at the track was my Tamron SP 60-300mm f/3.8-5.4. It is a very sharp lens and worked well with the slow slide emulsions I typically ran. Here's a shot I've shown here at the forum many times before, but given the subject of this thread, it bears repeating again:

Canon F-1, Tamron SP 60-300mm f/3.8-5.4, Kodachrome 64 (at EV 80). Believe it or don't, this was not a crop. More luck than skill, I suspect, although I was getting pretty good, if I don't mind saying Cool

I still use the Tamron SP 60-300. It's just a very useful lens. With a Nikon mount and adapters for both my EOS and NEX, and I'm all set. You can pick up clean examples of the 60-300 from eBay often for very reasonable. Be patient and a deal will come along. Try to get a copy with the hood.

This shot was taken with a Canon nFD 200mm f/2.8 IF. It came out well, but the Nikon 180mm f/2.8 ED AIs is a better lens and is one I'd recommend for a 200-ish focal length with adapters for your EOS and Sony. Canon F-1, Fujichrome 100.

Now, when it comes to getting a fast 300mm on a budget, there is really no substitute. It is the Tamron SP 300mm f/2.8 LDIF. It is not a cheap lens, but then it is a superb lens optically, so one can't expect it to sell for cheap. I was fortunate -- bought mine at auction for $500. The SP 300/2.8 LDIF came new with a Case, 1.4x teleconverter, a palm extension for easier hand-holding, a big hood and front cap . . . and I think, but I'm not sure, a front filter. Mine came with the hood and front cap only. But I already have a 1.4x (and a 2x) dedicated Tamron TC, so I don't need another, and I don't really need the case either. The palm grip? Just something else to lose.

I don't have any shots of race cars taken with the 300/2.8, but I have a whole bunch of shots of motorcycles I took a couple years ago, using my NEX 7. Here are a couple (all shot wide open at f/2.8 ):

My big mistake at that outing was I was shooting with Aperture priority auto and hadn't checked my shutter speed. As a result, I wound up with a lot of photos like this one:

That just looks strange to me.

There will be times when you'll wish you had more than 300mm. When that situation arose for me, I had a Sigma 600mm mirror that I used. These days I recommend instead the Tamron SP 500mm mirror. There is less quality variability with Tamron than with Sigma. I've owned three Sigma mirrors -- one was truly an outstanding optic, one was horrid, and the other is very good. Whereas the Tamron is consistently excellent. Here's a shot I took with my old Sigma 600 (the best one):

That above image is a Fujichrome 100 slide, taken back in 1986. Color's starting to turn a bit green and I didn't adjust it after shooting the duplicate. But as you can see, sharpness is excellent for a film photograph. One thing you may also notice from this photo is what appears to be vignetting. It isn't actually vignetting. The Sigma 600 had a very strong hot spot that was quite noticeable in high contrast situations. Not so much in the above instance though.

One thing I did on a routine basis back in those days when I was at the track, facing down 200 mph race cars, was the use of a foolproof focusing technique. I would pick a spot on the track and focus on it. Then when the car entered that "zone" I'd fire off my shots. Doing this one simple thing vastly increased my number of keepers. Also, maintain a good follow through with your pans. Follow-through is very important. Lastly, a good monopod can make a big difference, especially when you're at that ragged edge of hand-holdability.

Gardener · Joined: 22 Sep 2013 Posts: 950 Location: USA

I don't presume to know what your budget is like but EF 300/4 L, the original non-IS version, is at times available at bargain prices.

DConvert · Joined: 12 Jun 2010 Posts: 921 Location: Essex UK

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Maybe not the sharpest, but it is an interesting shot nonetheless, in a painterly sort of way. I have my share of OOF shots that have become keepers, mostly because of the dynamism they expressed.

When a pan goes bad:

sergun · Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:22 am Post subject:

DigiChromeEd Maybe You should try some Canon NFD 100-300mm F5.6 L years ? Although manual focus is pretty questionable for a sport.

DConvert · Joined: 12 Jun 2010 Posts: 921 Location: Essex UK

DigiChromeEd · Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 3462 Location: Northern Ireland

Thank you all for your replies, all very informative and helpful.

Michael; I've seen and admired a lot of your motor sport photos on the forum and will take on board your tips and comments the next time I attempt photographing racing cars. I used to own the Tamron SP 60-300mm but I didn't like it for two reasons. Firstly, on digital it displayed a lot of CA and the lens had to be stopped down to at least f6.3 for it to disappear. Secondly, I just couldn't get used to zooming away from me to the 300mm setting, it was counter intuitive to any zoom lens I had used before.

Anyway, the decision as to which lens I should look for has been taken out of my hands atm because during the past week a fellow forum member has very kindly sent me a Vivitar (Komine) 75-250mm f3.8-4.5 lens (thank you kryss!). When it arrives I will take it with me to the next race meeting in September. I'll post some results here.

Once again, thanks to everyone for your input! Friends

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

I've never become ingrained into the way zooms and other lenses operate. I just adjust accordingly. Some have aperture rings that rotate differently from others, some have focusing helicals that rotate in different directions than what one might be used to. The zoom push-pull directions you mention. Whether a push pull works best or a two ring one does. I don't let any of these differences stop me from using a lens. I adapt. Even chromatic aberrations, I get rid of in post. I adapt.

I'll recommend one more for you. This is the sharpest something-to-300mm tele I own. Plus it has low-dispersion glass, so fewer CA issues. The Tokina ATX 100-300mm f/4 SD. This is a big lens. A push-pull lens, it zooms in your preferred direction. It is tack sharp at 300mm wide open, rivaling some of the best 300mm teles I've ever used. Back when I was doing motorsports photography, I didn't know about this lens. If I would have, I'd have been using it instead of the Tamron 60-300.

Tokina also makes an ATX 150-500mm f/5.6 SD. It is a nice lens, a push-pull, but it isn't as sharp as the 100-300. I own a copy of this lens also. It could be useful for those shots when 300mm just isn't enough. But if you're thinking about lenses that zoom out to 500mm at all, I recommend instead the Tamron SP 200-500mm f/5.6. This is an amazingly sharp optic, but it is huge and heavy, pretty much requiring that you use some sort of support. I own a copy of this lens also. I think it weighs something like 6 lb.

martinsmith99 · Expire: 2013-11-18

martinsmith99 · Expire: 2013-11-18

For 300mm, I use either a Tamron SP 300mm F5.6 or a big heavy Tair (not the Photosniper but the preset model).

Both sharp but the Tair has better fringing control when used wide open.

spleenone · Joined: 26 Dec 2009 Posts: 1130 Location: Slovakia

If you need corrected lens and well performer then I can only recommend Nikkor 180/2.8 ED Ais. Beautiful glass. Maybe not so short focur throw but has other real advantages.

D1N0 · Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 2537

The Pentax-m 200mm F4 might also be a good option for you. It is small en relatively light weight but well built and cheap:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/SMC-Pentax-M-200mm-F4-Lens.html

DigiChromeEd · Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 3462 Location: Northern Ireland