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optical diagrams...?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:55 pm    Post subject: optical diagrams...? Reply with quote
Does anybody have optical diagram of any of these lenses:

Asahi Super (/S-M-C) Takumar 55/1.8
Asahi Super (/S-M-C) Takumar 50/1.4
Asahi Super (/S-M-C) Macro Takumar 50/4
Volna-9 50/2.8
Industar 61 50/2.8 or L/Z 50/2.8

Question

Thanks!


PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pentax K 55/1.8 (same optical formula as S-M-C Tak 55/1.8 : http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/lenses/primes/_optics/55f1.8.jpg

50/1.4 : http://whitemetal.com/pentax/st_50_14/catalog_50_14.gif

50/4 : http://whitemetal.com/pentax/smcmt_50mm_40/manual_smcmt_50_40.jpg

For the russian, I think we can find these, I already have the triplet of the Industar 50-2 Wink


PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you...
CarbonR wrote:
Pentax K 55/1.8 (same optical formula as S-M-C Tak 55/1.8 : http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/lenses/primes/_optics/55f1.8.jpg

So this is the same as Auto Tak. 55/1.8 = Ultron
CarbonR wrote:
50/1.4 : http://whitemetal.com/pentax/st_50_14/catalog_50_14.gif

7-element Ultron (like Planar 50/1.4)
CarbonR wrote:
50/4: http://whitemetal.com/pentax/smcmt_50mm_40/manual_smcmt_50_40.jpg

Tessar...
CarbonR wrote:
For the russian, I think we can find these, I already have the triplet of the Industar 50-2 Wink


I found the Industar 61:



http://www.zenit.istra.ru/archive/lenses/industar-61.html

But Volna-9 seems to be a big problem.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:18 am    Post subject: Re: optical diagrams...? Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
Volna-9 50/2.8


It's a Tessar formula lens (4 element/3 group) with a special rare earth element (lanthanum).

Cheers!

Abbazz


PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:40 am    Post subject: Re: optical diagrams...? Reply with quote
Abbazz wrote:
no-X wrote:
Volna-9 50/2.8


It's a Tessar formula lens (4 element/3 group) with a special rare earth element (lanthanum).

Cheers!

Abbazz


I read in other forum that it has the same schame than the nikkor 4/50. But I couldn't confirm it.

Although Abbazz post seems more possible to me.

Rino.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:03 am    Post subject: Re: optical diagrams...? Reply with quote
estudleon wrote:
I read in other forum that it has the same schame than the nikkor 4/50. But I couldn't confirm it.

Although Abbazz post seems more possible to me.


Rino, you can believe me, it's a Tessar -- although an improved one. Here's the lens diagram:

Image linked from Marco Cavina's webpage about Volna-9

Cheers!

Abbazz


PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Abbazz I beleave, it's a tessar design.

You choose the best tessar lens (reformuled elmar Very Happy ).

Rino.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I had a long dicussion about that with Macro and this is actually our (current) best guess about that Volna-9.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Many thanks. I read somewhere, that Volna-9 is extended Tessar design with 5 elements, but this (lanthanum Tessar) seems to be more likely Smile


PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote




this is the info I have, so there is still some doubt about the Volna-9


PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:




this is the info I have, so there is still some doubt about the Volna-9


I have read that Volna 9 has the schenider xenotar (for rolleiflex) 5 elements type, that I think that is scheme of the macro nikkor 4/50 lens. But I'm not a specialist in nikkor lenses nor volna-9.

Thanks Kds315. No-X put the finger on the score Laughing

Rino


PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
OK there are three teories:

1. lanthanum tessar
2. xenotar 5/4
3. 6/5 (double-gauss)

The xenotar version is very interesting, because Xenotar is very similar to Biometar - both hybrid designs, which can be described as (double)gauss / front part + sonnar / rear part:



http://webh01.ua.ac.be/elmc/website_FL/Old_cameras.htm


PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
OK there are three teories:

1. lanthanum tessar
2. xenotar 5/4
3. 6/5 (double-gauss)

The xenotar version is very interesting, because Xenotar is very similar to Biometar - both hybrid designs, which can be described as (double)gauss / front part + sonnar / rear part:



http://webh01.ua.ac.be/elmc/website_FL/Old_cameras.htm



Nodoby has it??

The owner can see counting the reflections, the N° of elements and groups that the lens has.

Rino.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I put Volna under lamp: It has 5 small reflections + 1 big and another 3 small reflections + 1 big, which have opposite orientation

Tessar 50/2.8 has 3 small reflections + 1 big and another 3 small reflections in opposite orientation.

I'm not sure, if my description is comprehensible, but the reflections are definately different.

Volnas' reflections are more similar to Biometar, but Volna seems to have 1 more...


PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
I put Volna under lamp: It has 5 small reflections + 1 big and another 3 small reflections + 1 big, which have opposite orientation

Tessar 50/2.8 has 3 small reflections + 1 big and another 3 small reflections in opposite orientation.

I'm not sure, if my description is comprehensible, but the reflections are definately different.

Volnas' reflections are more similar to Biometar, but Volna seems to have 1 more...


That is 10 air-glass surfaces. Two possibilities:

1- Xenotar - biometar type with three front elements separated (5/5)

2 -Double gauss (6/4)

Rino.


PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Koji gave me an inspiration...

10 air/glass surfaces and macro capabilities = macro-plasmat



As Koji mentioned in another thread, Zeiss Macro Prakticar 55/2.8 is also based on this design:



But I'm not sure, which side is the front one.


PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
the left one...


PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you. Left one for both Plasmat and Prakticar?

I'm asking because Volna 50/1.8 seems to use the same design, only reversed:



(if the left part is frontal too)


PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I tried again the "flash-light test". Separately for front block and for rear block. Now I'm 99% sure, that Volna-9 is 6/5. In detail: 1-1-1|2-1 (it could be also 1-1-1|1-2, but that is highly unlikely).

It means, that Volna-9 has very likely the same basic optical diagram as other Volna lenses.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Does anybody know optical diagram of Prakticar 50/2.4? I'm not sucessful with my search...


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nope, haven't seen one yet. But I will get a Makro-Plasmat lens in a few days.

But since we're talking, has anyone ever seen one for the Carl Zeiss Jena Macro Floatar 2.8/35mm with floating element(s) (hence the name)??


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm looking forward to your macro-plasmat samples Smile

As for the Floatar, I have never heard about that lens Embarassed


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
I tried again the "flash-light test". Separately for front block and for rear block. Now I'm 99% sure, that Volna-9 is 6/5. In detail: 1-1-1|2-1 (it could be also 1-1-1|1-2, but that is highly unlikely).

It means, that Volna-9 has very likely the same basic optical diagram as other Volna lenses.


Someone on pentax-forums.ru has disassembled the lens, and here are his findings:

1. Front lens element - positive meniscus
2. Second lens - a strong negative element
3. Third lens - a highly curved, strong positive
(aperture)
4. Fourht element - a very thick element; most probably, a cemented group of two lenses; positive overall
5. Last, a positive convexo-convex element with stronger curve on the back.

So it does sound a lot like Volna-1 (50/1.8 ).



PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you very much for these info. I'm really happy to read my guess was right Very Happy

Btw. I bought the Pentacon Prakticar 50/2.4. My model seems to be the older version (metal) - at least according to description on praktica-users

But the number of lens elements is different. Front group: three separated elements. Rear group: single element. That's 1-1-1|1 or 4/4 construction. Seems to be basic Ernostar.

Sample shot at f/2.4:




according to my opinion, sharpness is average, CA is low and bokeh is very good...
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