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Nikkor 80-200mm f4 AI/s
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:07 am    Post subject: Nikkor 80-200mm f4 AI/s Reply with quote
In response to a discussion on another thread to avoid off-topic:

Lens barrel markings.

This one is actually an AI-S variant. I was mistaken about it being the first AI version.




Rabbit trying to relax in the late afternoon heat.
80-200 f4 AI-S wide open at 1/60 sec at 200mm. ISO 100. Nikon D-200.


As above except 1/80 sec at 80mm.

Both are cropped and re-sized to meet forum parameters.
I have not done any further post work on the images.
I was shooting through a screened window at about 15 feet/5 meters distance.
The window screen gave the focus confirmation dot a run for it's money at the 200 mark.
Not too bad at the 80mm position.
I had trouble with this lens before at the 80mm setting on a blustery cold day. It would not focus up to infinity.
That problem disappeared by 105mm. I still haven't had time to determine yet if the problem is temperature related.

I will have to get a shovel and dig the f4.5 80-200mm out of the lens closet for comparison...

-D.S.

Last edited by Doc Sharptail on Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:51 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have the AI version. It and even the earlier f/4.5 version are outstanding zooms.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Doc Sharptail wrote:

This one [ie Nikkor 80-200mm f4] is actually an AI-S variant. I was mistaken about it being the first AI version.


cooltouch wrote:
I have the AI version.


There's no Ai version of the Nikkor 4/80-200mm, only Ai-S.

Doc Sharptail wrote:

I will have to get a shovel and dig the f4.5 80-200mm out of the lens closet for comparison...

-D.S.

Will be interesting to see!

S


PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
For some financial Wink reason, I have three of the f4.5 80-200mm lenses in my stash.
I grabbed the one handiest- which is a bit dry on the lubricant side, and pursued brer rabbit.


At 80mm, f4.5, 1/100 sec, ISO 200. About 30-35/10-11 feet/meters according to the focus scale on the lens.

I braced the camera against a stair rail for this one- hence the diagonal angle.
Shooting through a wrought iron fence did little to help the image.
Rabbit was quite agitated today, and gave little time for the sublties of composition, etc.

At 200mm, f4.5, 1/400 sec, ISO 200. About 120/40 feet/meters distant.


I had no luck catching him in the lens at the 200mm focal length, closer than what's shown above.
Image is slightly out of focus.
I had no opportunity for any further images.
A door slammed somewhere, and he was long gone.

I am going to shelve this lens until I can get it CLA'd.
I will have to check on the other 2 when I can locate them in the pile.
These are different lighting situations- I had to increase ISO to 200 for the heavy shade.
Contrast and color look much improved with the newer lens.
I will have to test under equal lighting conditions to come to a firm decision.

-D.S.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:

cooltouch wrote:
I have the AI version.


There's no Ai version of the Nikkor 4/80-200mm, only Ai-S.


Huh. You're right. Had to pull it out of the cabinet. Sure enough, never paid much attention to the mount.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've just been comparing the follwing lenses wide open at f=80mm and at f=200mm in the infinity range (landscapes):


1) Minolta AF 4.5-5.6/75-300mm (I) "Big Beercan"
2) Nikkor Ai 4.5/80-200mm
3) Nikkor AiS 4/80-200mm
4) Nikon E 4/70-210mm
5) Zeiss CY Vario-Sonnar 4/80-200mm

- The two Nikkors perform quite similarly, the newer f4 being slighly better at f=80mm
- The Nikon E at f=80mm is visibly weaker than the the two Nikkor, but more or less equal to the Nikkors at the long end
- The Zeiss is clearly sharper than all the Nikkors / Nikon E mentioned
- The Minolta "Big Beercan" is clearly better than the Nikkors / Nikon E as well; it has slightly less detail resolution than the Zeiss, but also less CAs at f=200mm

I'm not publishing these test results since the weather over here is slightly hazy (lots of rain during the last days) - I may repeat the test tomorrow or the day after to get cleaner looking images.

S


PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I wonder if it's the coatings on "E" series that cause their shortcomings.
I briefly had a short to medium "E" zoom that I can't recall much about.
I had a very difficult time with it, and returned it to the dealer for a full refund.
I have not completed my non-scientific comparisons yet.
Sort of dreading going into the lens closet after the others....

-D.S.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Doc Sharptail wrote:
I wonder if it's the coatings on "E" series that cause their shortcomings.

Probably not. I would expect the coatings to have an influence on contrast, but not on the classical Seidel aberrations.

Doc Sharptail wrote:

I briefly had a short to medium "E" zoom that I can't recall much about.
I had a very difficult time with it, and returned it to the dealer for a full refund.

-D.S.


The Nikon E 3.5/36-72mm I guess? I have one as well, but never bothered to really test it. Turns out its performance is pretty much lower than the Minolta MD-III 3.5/35-70mm Macro, at any focal length and especially wide open. The Nikkor to go here is the AiS 3.5/35-70mm of course, which is as nearly as sharp as the Minolta, but has the great advantage of being completely distortion-free (distortion <1% in the entire range from 35mm to 70mm!!).

S


PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Still having problems with the AI 80-220 f4 reaching infinity at the 80mm position.
It will do about 320 feet/110 meters or so, and then quit.
Image taken at the hard infinity stop.



200mm seems as fine as it is going to get.
As mentioned previously, hard infinity stop appears to work properly from just below the 105mm mark on the lens barrel.
I wonder if anyone else has experienced this sort of thing.
End of the lens barrel is fine with no nicks or dents.


Both images were taken at f8.
We have a lot of smoke in the atmosphere here from wildfires, and I was far less than steady on the switch today.
I did a fair amount of architecture art shots with it today that I'll probably post later on.

Edit:

I can't seem to reply to this thread in the normal fashion.
I first noticed the inability to reach infinity at 80mm with the lens on both F-2's, and F-3.
It's not the big fat hairy deal it could be- simply going to about 105mm clears it up.
My particular iteration shows signs of normal, if any use.
Not quite pristine, but in very good- excellent condition...

-D.S.

Last edited by Doc Sharptail on Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Doc Sharptail wrote:
Still having problems with the AI 80-220 f4 reaching infinity at the 80mm position.
...
I wonder if anyone else has experienced this sort of thing.
...
-D.S.


My like-new Nikkor AiS 4/80-200mm shows the same behaviour.

I have two Nikon F => Sony E adapters - one is pretty much exact (which means some Nikkors can't be focused to infinity and some go slightly beyond infinity), the other one is slightly shorter (allowing all lenses to focus to infinity or beyond). In theory, the first one would be better for zooms and floating focusing lenses, since the correct distance between master lens and sensor can be maintained.

In practise however many zoom lenses are not exactly parfocal (meaning their focus remains constant while zooming). The Nikkor AiS 4/80-200mm - at least in the infinity range - seems to be slightly varifocal as well. Mine, using the first adapter, goes perfectly to infinity at f=80mm, but needs to be focus slightly closer at f=200mm. It's really a tiny amount (less than 1 mm turning).

S


PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Doc Sharptail wrote:
Still having problems with the AI 80-220 f4 reaching infinity at the 80mm position.
It will do about 320 feet/110 meters or so, and then quit.
Image taken at the hard infinity stop.


-D.S.


If you have working film bodies does it focus to infinity on one of them? If not you probably have something wrong somewhere.

A test: What happens if you put the lens on infinity and then just zoom it. Both film and where you have the lens currently.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="Slalom"]
Doc Sharptail wrote:
Still having problems with the AI 80-220 f4 reaching infinity at the 80mm position.
It will do about 320 feet/110 meters or so, and then quit.
Image taken at the hard infinity stop.


-D.S.


The 80/200 f4 was first designed as a macro lens (to compete with the vivitar s1 90/180 flat field realased two years before in 1979 ??) then sold as an all purpose lens that's why infinity quality was not 100% optimal
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.marcocavina.com/articoli_tecnici_fotografici.htm


PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Seems I can reply from phone....
First noticed the inability to reach infinity on my F-2.
It does it at 80mm on every camera I've tried it on including another F-2 and a F-3...
Problem clears up at about 105 mm.
I think I can live with it.
Condition shows signs of more or less normal use.
I'd place it very good to excellent condition. Not quite pristine.
There's still a lot to like here.
Very sharp in situations that are not at extremes...

-D.S.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
PBFACTS wrote:

The 80/200 f4 was first designed as a macro lens (to compete with the vivitar s1 90/180 flat field realased two years before in 1979 ??)

Probably not. The Vivitar is said to be a specalized lens for medical purposes, but I'm not sur whether this is true.

The Nikkor 4/80-200mm seems to be more in line with lenses such as the Konica Hexanon AR 4/80-200mm UC or the Tamron 3.5-4/70-210mm (51A) which both went down to 1:2. They were not specialized macro tools, but allround zooms with an extended macro range (1:2 instead of the mor common 1:4).


PBFACTS wrote:

then sold as an all purpose lens that's why infinity quality was not 100% optimal
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.marcocavina.com/articoli_tecnici_fotografici.htm


Here's the direct link:
http://www.marcocavina.com/articoli_fotografici/Nikkor_80-200_story/00_pag.htm

S


PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:

Here's the direct link:
http://www.marcocavina.com/articoli_fotografici/Nikkor_80-200_story/00_pag.htm

S


Did a bit of looking around.
Roland Vink's page lists this lens as having a 17 year production span~ which is a long time.

Oddly enough, Bjorn Rorslett's page downgrades the lens for use with "D-2X" series cameras.

I haven't been able to find anything about changes to the optical formula over the life span of this lens.
For a lens that long lived, it is probable that changes were made.


At 200mm f8 at the minimum focus stop.
Short depth of field is quite evident with the lens extended that far.



At 80mm f8, things are not much improved for depth of field.
Against the close focus stop again.
What is interesting is the detail in the area that is almost, but not quite, in focus.
Blame the photog for that one. Razz



At 200mm f8 pretty well straight up. The eroded lion's heads rainwater drains are 21 stories above street level.
Not quite to the hard infinity stop, but getting close.



At 80mm f8. Subject distance about 40 feet/11 meters.
This is where this lens starts to shine. I like this a lot...


-D.S.

Last edited by Doc Sharptail on Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
PBFACTS wrote:

The 80/200 f4 was first designed as a macro lens (to compete with the vivitar s1 90/180 flat field realased two years before in 1979 ??)

stevemark wrote:

Probably not. The Vivitar is said to be a specalized lens for medical purposes, but I'm not sur whether this is true.



The Vivitar was designed as a medical lens optimized for the 1:10 ratio but when ponder & best (the marketing company) realized that the lens was ok as infinite they sold it as an all purpose lens which excells in macro mode. (a much bigger market)

stevemark wrote:

The Nikkor 4/80-200mm seems to be more in line with lenses such as the Konica Hexanon AR 4/80-200mm UC or the Tamron 3.5-4/70-210mm (51A) which both went down to 1:2. They were not specialized macro tools, but allround zooms with an extended macro range (1:2 instead of the mor common 1:4).


The Nikkor 80/200 4 was designed at first EXACTLY as the vivitar : a macro/medical lens then the marketing sold it as an all purpose lens (without insisting on the macro capability.. Why ?)
Please read the link:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.marcocavina.com/articoli_tecnici_fotografici.htm[/quote]

I cannot confirm for the tamron/konica lenses but usually these are all purpose lens with extended macro capability
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