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hoanpham
Joined: 31 Jan 2011 Posts: 2575
Expire: 2015-01-18
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:31 am Post subject: Nikkor 24mm f2.0 AI |
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hoanpham wrote:
I read many 'less-good' reviews, especially wide open, of this lens and decided to go out a week/10-days with it.
I don't have nikon dslr so I use a sony nex.
Wide open does have glow that I dislike a bit, but stepping down just a bit gives much better result. By 'stepping down a bit', I mean slightly move the aperture ring between 2.0 and 2.8. I guess my copy can step down to f2.2, with barely smaller aperture than wide open.
I tested wide open, ~1/3 step (barely visible smaller), and 1/2 step (between 2 clicks)
Results are very ok - not wide open then, but faster than f2.8. No PP applied. jpg output from LR, standard sharpen for screen.
Are photos f2.2/f2.5 look bad for you?
100% crop wide open:
100% crop ~f2.2:
100% crop wide open:
100% crop ~f2.5:
100% crop wide open:
100% crop ~f2.2:
100% crop ~f2.2:
100% crop ~f2.2:
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fermy
Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 1974
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:03 am Post subject: |
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fermy wrote:
How on Earth can the lens that was used by all pro journos at the time be "less good"? Less good than what? _________________ Many lenses and some film bodies for sale here: http://forum.mflenses.com/canon-fd-minolta-md-c-mounts-m42-pentax-and-more-t50465.html
Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/96060788@N06/ |
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scsambrook
Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 2167 Location: Glasgow Scotland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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scsambrook wrote:
Hi hoanpham !
I think you are a hard, cruel taskmaster to your lenses Rest assured, it is a fine lens but what you're asking it to do is a bit like making the 100 meter sprinter keep going at the same speed over 400 meters . . . Full aperture in brilliant sunshine is pushing things very hard indeed.
Try the experiment again, but use raw rather than jpg, expose for the highlights and then add a little contrast and shadow-lifting in processing. Things will look better, but believe me, they're not bad as they are ! _________________ Stephen
Equipment: Pentax DSLR for casual shooting, Lumix G1 and Fuji XE-1 for playing with old lenses, and Leica M8 because I still like the optical rangefinder system. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Doesn't look great to me, the glow is the problem, it seems to mask the sharpness and make it look less sharp. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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hoanpham
Joined: 31 Jan 2011 Posts: 2575
Expire: 2015-01-18
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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hoanpham wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Doesn't look great to me, the glow is the problem, it seems to mask the sharpness and make it look less sharp. |
It becomes a soft lens at f2.0, but very usable at f2.2 or f2.5.
Stephen,
I am not hard nor difficult, just pure curiousity. I shot raw only.
The lens is good. May be not as good as canon fd 24/1.4 at f2.0, but lighter smaller.
Other may say if they cannot use at f2.0, why keep it? get the 24/2.8 which is cheaper (!) That extra light between f2.0 and f2.8 may worth the difference. I don't have the nikkor 24/2.8 to compare at f2.8, but this lens is very good at f2.8. After a week, I have many samples and will pick a few later.
These are full images of the above crops taken at f2.5 and f2.2:
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aleksanderpolo
Joined: 24 Jan 2010 Posts: 684
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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aleksanderpolo wrote:
If you want center sharpness and less glow, try Canon FD 24/2, it is better in this aspect and very useable at f2 on crop. |
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008 Posts: 6622 Location: United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-11-24
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
It's a decent enough lens in my experience, with very nice colours. BUT...it's not as good as the 28/2. I was truely amazed with that model... _________________ Graham - Moderator
Shooter of choice: Fujifilm X-T20 with M42, PB and C/Y lenses
See my Flickr photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/manualfocus-g |
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hoanpham
Joined: 31 Jan 2011 Posts: 2575
Expire: 2015-01-18
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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hoanpham wrote:
no PP, f2.2:
Slightly increase fill light, f2.2:
ManualFocus-G wrote: |
It's a decent enough lens in my experience, with very nice colours. BUT...it's not as good as the 28/2. I was truely amazed with that model... |
The lens is a good one indeed. f2.2 removed most of the glow, sharp enough and still keep the bokeh i like
I have the 28/2 but havent use it much after i got the hexanon uc 28/1.8. For safety reason, i keep using the pentax 28/2 'distagon'. Next round should dedicate to the nikkor 28/2. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Just my taste but to me the bokeh is horrible, has a sort of zooming effect going on, quite unsettling to look at.
How does it perform at 2.8? Is the glow gone? I really don't like the look it has at 2.2 or 2.5. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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walter g
Joined: 20 Feb 2010 Posts: 2463 Location: NC, USA
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:40 am Post subject: |
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walter g wrote:
Their was another thread about the Nikkor 2/24 AI. I just can't see buying this lens over the Nikkor 2.8/24. Now if I found one cheap that's another matter.
http://forum.mflenses.com/nikkor-2-0-24mm-ai-t35970,highlight,%2Bnikkor+%2B24mm.html _________________
Main cameras
Panasonic G5,Nikon J1,Pentax Q10,Sony Nex 6
Minolta MC W SI 2.5/28, MD 2.8/28, MC W SG 3.5/28, MC Celtic 3.5/28, MC W HG 2.8/35, MD Celtic 2.8/35, QE 4/35, Rokkor X 2/45, MC Rokkor X PG 1.4/50, MC Rokkor X PG 1.7/50, MD Rokkor X 1.7/50, MD 2/50, MC Rokkor PF 1.7/55, MC Rokkor PF 1.9/55, Auto Tele Rokkor PG 2.8/135, MC Tele Rokkor QD 3.5/135, TC 4/135, MC Celtic 4/200, MC Tele Rokkor PE 4.5/200
MD 28-70 f3.5-4.8, MD Macro 35-70 f3.5, Md 70-210 f4, MD Rokkor X 75-200 f4.5, MD 100-200 f5.6
Nikon Nikkor 4/20, O Auto 2/35, S Auto 1.4/50..... Miranda Auto 2.8/28, Auto 2.8/35, Auto 1.4/50, Auto EC 1.4/50, Auto 1.8/50, Auto EC 1.8/50,Auto 1.9/50, Auto 3.5/135
Various Soligor,Sun,Fujita,Komura,Spitatone, etc. Lenses
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:58 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Thanks for the link Walter, lots of good info in that thread. Seems the consensus is the 2.8/24 is a much better lens overall. Just waiting for my adapter to arrive so I can try my newly acquired 2.8/24 Nikkor-N. When I saw the glow and 'zoom' bokeh of the 2/24 I was worried the 2.8/24 might suffer from the same defects, but that thread eases my mind that it doesn't. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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hoanpham
Joined: 31 Jan 2011 Posts: 2575
Expire: 2015-01-18
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:27 am Post subject: |
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hoanpham wrote:
Thanks Walter. I was reading your reference thread a while ago, but cannot locate it when I started this one - and several others.
Ian,
Yes I agree that the bokeh has some distracting pattern. The zoom effect of the bokeh is amplified at closer distance. At f2.8 most of the glow is gone, the lens is sharp, but the bokeh with zoom pattern is still the same. That kind of bokeh makes framing a bit challenge: anything off center will be distracting. In the other hand, it might create a dynamic look. Due to this uneven bokeh, I expect worse rending on FF sensors.
Safe distance, f2.2, no pp:
Make the best out of it - 'dynamic' bokeh:
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RTI
Joined: 15 Jul 2011 Posts: 282 Location: Moldova, Chisinau
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:01 am Post subject: |
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RTI wrote:
Looks quite sharp to me but I dislike the bokeh. Reminds me of Vivitar (Kiron) 28mm f2 same type of bokeh... _________________ Cameras: Canon 5DIII, Zorki-4, Canon AE-1
MF:Rokkor 58/1.2, Rokkor MC 58/1.4, Yashica ML 50/1.7, M39 Jupiter-9 (silver 1955), Zuiko 35-70/3.6
AF: Sigma Art 35/1.4, Tamron 24-70/2.8 VC, |
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Rolf
Joined: 02 May 2009 Posts: 4123 Location: NRW/Germany
Expire: 2015-12-26
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Rolf wrote:
I tried it out this morning with D800 the first time due to your thread. Below 2 samples with the same type of bokeh.
All images wide open at f/2
_________________ Rolf |
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hoanpham
Joined: 31 Jan 2011 Posts: 2575
Expire: 2015-01-18
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:24 am Post subject: |
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hoanpham wrote:
Thanks Rolf.
Quite distracting for a flower shot
D800's output is very nice. |
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hoanpham
Joined: 31 Jan 2011 Posts: 2575
Expire: 2015-01-18
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:35 am Post subject: |
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hoanpham wrote:
RTI wrote: |
Looks quite sharp to me but I dislike the bokeh. Reminds me of Vivitar (Kiron) 28mm f2 same type of bokeh... |
I too have the Kiron 28/2. The nikkor has more zoom bokeh. The distances amplifies this effect, ie. closer distance to subject, longer distance to background. Indoor is safe. I use f2.2 to max the sharpness. The nikkor is a good lens, and interesting bokeh as property. |
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Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008 Posts: 2441 Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:09 am Post subject: |
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Esox lucius wrote:
Using a fast wide-angle lens for macro work in front light and complaining about bad bokeh or traces of CA when viewed at 100% is in my opinion similar to pouring too low octane gasoline into an SUV, taking it to a race track and then complain it doesn't corner very well and acceleration sucks.
Here you got what you asked for - if you're interested in smooth bokeh perhaps you should look at lens designs which were not designed for maximized depth of field? |
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hoanpham
Joined: 31 Jan 2011 Posts: 2575
Expire: 2015-01-18
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:48 am Post subject: |
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hoanpham wrote:
Esox lucius wrote: |
Using a fast wide-angle lens for macro work in front light and complaining about bad bokeh or traces of CA when viewed at 100% is in my opinion similar to pouring too low octane gasoline into an SUV, taking it to a race track and then complain it doesn't corner very well and acceleration sucks.
Here you got what you asked for - if you're interested in smooth bokeh perhaps you should look at lens designs which were not designed for maximized depth of field? |
Hey, Just a test run right?
My opinion may sounds harsh to the lens. I like to push things to the limits.
As I mentioned earlier, other might dislike the lens, but it's a good lens. As for all lenses, there are limitations.
I also have photos taken with other aperture settings. At f5.6-8-11, these photos are at pixel level. I got borred after a while with sharp images and focus on the weak spots to have some fun/brain teaser when watching my kids.
The bottom line is I know what it is good for and what I can do with it's weakest spots. I really like the dynamic bokeh background with my boy looking upward.
My next question is:
Which lenses, from ~28mm and wider, from ~f2.8 and faster, can shot wide, landscape, close, produce the bokeh like this and still very sharp when stepping down a click?
It was one of the best in time. It is still a 24mm f2.0. |
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Minolfan
Joined: 30 Dec 2008 Posts: 3438 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Minolfan wrote:
hoanpham wrote: |
I really like the dynamic bokeh background with my boy looking upward. |
It is a nice picture for sure, but with such foreground distraction in the background is hardly experienced |
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hoanpham
Joined: 31 Jan 2011 Posts: 2575
Expire: 2015-01-18
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:09 am Post subject: |
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hoanpham wrote:
Minolfan wrote: |
...but with such foreground distraction in the background is hardly experienced |
I would say 'horrible' speaking of bokeh alone.
It's the only lens I have that can produce this effect with no PP.
In some point in photography journey, you may find it borring with smooth/buttery bokeh too |
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Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008 Posts: 2441 Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:18 am Post subject: |
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Esox lucius wrote:
hoanpham wrote: |
Hey, Just a test run right?
My opinion may sounds harsh to the lens. I like to push things to the limits. |
Don't get me wrong, my irony is dry humor as I am mildly amused by zero research like this. I practice archery and skeet as a hobby, and if this were a skeet shooting forum there would be no-one, I mean no-one posting test results where they find out that their small-game shotgun proved useless when they tried to stop a wild boar charging at them
Yes, this is the Internet age - camera enthusiasts like to dig their nose until they see blood on their fingertip. I just fail to see how this is related to (or develops) the craft of photography. Well, the name of the forum is Manual Focus Lenses so my question is irrelevant, the purpose here is gear-centric as opposed to focusing on the aesthetics of results. |
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hoanpham
Joined: 31 Jan 2011 Posts: 2575
Expire: 2015-01-18
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:41 am Post subject: |
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hoanpham wrote:
Esox lucius wrote: |
Don't get me wrong, my irony is dry humor as I am mildly amused by zero research like this. I practice archery and skeet as a hobby, and if this were a skeet shooting forum there would be no-one, I mean no-one posting test results where they find out that their small-game shotgun proved useless when they tried to stop a wild boar charging at them
Yes, this is the Internet age - camera enthusiasts like to dig their nose until they see blood on their fingertip. I just fail to see how this is related to (or develops) the craft of photography. Well, the name of the forum is Manual Focus Lenses so my question is irrelevant, the purpose here is gear-centric as opposed to focusing on the aesthetics of results. |
but you are completely right regarding using fast wide, front light, macro etc.
I had only one lens for 10 days, and had 5-6 hrs to play with it everyday.
I shot lots of photos but never win a contest
This lens won't make me a better photographer after 10 days.
Sounds like a fun sport you have. |
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Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008 Posts: 2441 Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Esox lucius wrote:
hoanpham wrote: |
Sounds like a fun sport you have. |
I recommend you try archery, it is very efficient training for camera holding technique - breathing, pose, balance, trigger etc. |
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sichko
Joined: 20 Jun 2008 Posts: 2475 Location: South West UK
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:38 am Post subject: |
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sichko wrote:
hoanpham wrote: |
I use f2.2 to max the sharpness. |
In the first pair of pictures you have clearly reduced the exposure in going from f/2 to f/2.2. Maybe it is this reduction in exposure which is responsible for the increase in sharpness. Have you compared f/2 and f/2.2 with similar exposures ? _________________ John |
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hoanpham
Joined: 31 Jan 2011 Posts: 2575
Expire: 2015-01-18
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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hoanpham wrote:
Esox lucius wrote: |
I recommend you try archery, it is very efficient training for camera holding technique - breathing, pose, balance, trigger etc. |
Sure I will try if I cruise over a club in town.
Remind me first time i visit texas in the 80's: My cousin took me out to a shooting range try guns with 300 bullets
sichko wrote: |
In the first pair of pictures you have clearly reduced the exposure in going from f/2 to f/2.2. Maybe it is this reduction in exposure which is responsible for the increase in sharpness. Have you compared f/2 and f/2.2 with similar exposures ? |
I have all test photos, it's just too borring to look at them, so I pick a few and some 100% crop to illustrate the point.
f2.0 in bright sunlight, will glow up badly. The glow is so visible that makes the photo look unsharp. When the subject is in the shade, it's no longer a problem, just make sure the face has not partly sun lit. I also use EV alot from case to case. Also the later portraits, I use the sun as front light to max the bokeh in background.
Cloudy cast 1/2-portraits may be the best use of f2.0. I use f2.0 in few first days, then tape the aperture ring at ~f2.2 in the last days. It's just my compromise between f-stop and sharpness.
Like the bokeh better?
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