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Pontus
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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Location: Jakobstad, Finland
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 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:52 pm Post subject: Nikkor 200/2 AI and AI-S differences and price |
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Pontus wrote:
What is the current price of a Nikkor 200/2 AI vs. the newer AI-S (in good shape, not a beater)? Are the prices on eBay a lot higher than what they actually sell for?
Are there any optical differences? I once read that the AI-S is slightly better due to 3x ED lens elements while the AI version has 2x ED lens elements. I haven't been able to verify this as I can't find the source anymore.
I'm thinking of selling my Minolta AF 300/2.8 and buying one of these for my NEX-5N instead.
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pich900
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1745
Location: The Netherlands/Zwolle
Expire: 2012-12-27
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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pich900 wrote:
I use to have one (Ais IF-ED N, last version), it is for sure a fantastic lens but I sold it because of the weight, it's so big and heavy that it is almost impossible to use it without tripod.....At f2, it's a real challenge to get the right focus, I used this lens on a FF body with a good EVF (quite important with so extreme fast lens) and to be honest, I will never buy this lens for a crop cam and especially not for a Nex! The Nex is a great cam but definitively not the best cam for tele lens, it's only my point of view of course! Over the price, average price is between 1000€ and 1400€ depending if the lens is mint or not and if accessories are included or not (lens case, lens cap, etc..)....Over the difference between the ai and ais, I don't know but I also read somewhere than the last version Ais was slightly better than the oldest ai, no idea if it's true or not!....
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Boomer Depp
Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 552
Location: Kingston,Washighton
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Boomer Depp wrote:
Haven't followed the prices for a while,so wouldn't know the latest prices for certain...since,mostly I've been collecting the Canon L line for a while now.
The Mir site does not show a design difference...but there were indeed some changes to the design that improved the performance.
I've known photogs who have had the original AI design and later replaced it with either the AI-S or the N AI-S version....because the later lenses were a tad sharper...especially wide open.
It's certainly not a walk-a-round lens and likes to be mounted on a solid tripod!
I had an AI-S which I replaced with an N AI-S...later I replaced the N AI-S with a final copy from the last production run of the N AI-S ....
Still have this lens and it shoots very well,the way it was intended,wide open...or stopped down just a wee bit, if you must stop down.
Contrast increases with a slight decline in sharpness till a little over f4 till about f5.6...beyond f5.6 the image sharpness declines significantly the more the lens is stopped down.
If shooting monster lenses and using a tripod doesn't bother you....it's a great lens....if not,it's not the lens for you.
Don't recommend a ball head on a tripod with this lens...a high quality pan head is better...
A gimbal head such as a Wimberley makes life the easiest on the photog with this lens...
With many of my longer lenses,prefer to use a longer slide plate to adjust for balance.... remove the Wimberley adapter and replace it with a video adapter that accommodates a long slider plate.
The Bogen Manfrotto RC QR Video Adapter is much wider & robust then the typical high dollar camera adapter and their narrow slide plates and cost much less,if you can find a good deal...usually they're about a $100.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bogen-Manfrotto-RC-QR-Adapter-sliding-plate-357PL-/360469789451?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53edac7b0b
The image quality is excellent on film and decent on a crop body such as a Nikon D2,but not quite so good on a full frame Nikon D3...
I've also used this lens with moderate success on pro crop bodies such as the Canon 1D2 and 1D2n...but don't use it with my higher Canon MP bodies such as the 1Ds2,1Ds3 or the 1D4.
Recently acquired a Canon EF 200/2...so haven't used the lens lately...but believe me,if mounted properly on a gimbal head is joy to focus...manual focusing with just one finger as was the intention of Nikon IF manual focus lenses.
My first N AI-S which I sold is pictured below...
Nikkor 200mm f2 IF-ED N AI-S
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Pontus
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 1471
Location: Jakobstad, Finland
Expire: 2016-08-25
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:07 am Post subject: |
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Pontus wrote:
Thank you both for your input, it is higly appreciated. I found a 200/2 AI for what I feel is a great price. Do you think that the wide open performance is going to be a problem? I'm probably going to use this lens wide open only at dusk /dawn and if the AI-S really is sharper and better wide open, I will have to think about getting the newer lens instead. But maybe the difference in IQ is very minor? Hope so!
I'm probably hoping too much but maybe someone has comparison test shots between the AI and the AI-S and AI-S (N) versions?
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pich900
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1745
Location: The Netherlands/Zwolle
Expire: 2012-12-27
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:38 am Post subject: |
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pich900 wrote:
probably quite difficult to find someone who has both versions  ......if you can try it first then it will be may be a good idea, like I said, it's a great lens but it's very bulky and definitely not a lens you can bring for a family walk  ....
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Regards,
Pascal
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Pontus
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 1471
Location: Jakobstad, Finland
Expire: 2016-08-25
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:06 am Post subject: |
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Pontus wrote:
| pich900 wrote: |
| probably quite difficult to find someone who has both versions |
True!
I've heard that this lens works extremely well with the TC-14C teleconverter which is next to impossible to find. Most other teleconverters don't work well with this lens. Are there any exeptions? I'm thinking that the odd (and sometimes) cheap TC-16A could be worth a try as it is supposed to be very sharp in the middle but not at the corners. Bad corners wouldn't matter that much on a crop body.
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Boomer Depp
Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 552
Location: Kingston,Washighton
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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Boomer Depp wrote:
Photographers who are willing to part with the coin for high end glass,are probably, if not the most anal of personality types and excessively picky.
The difference between the AI and AI-S wide open is probably quite negligible in reality.
As Pascal said,mount the lens and give her a go.
I wouldn't shoot it with anything other the recommended TC....but I can be anal at times....
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Pontus
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 1471
Location: Jakobstad, Finland
Expire: 2016-08-25
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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Pontus wrote:
I found an interesting article from Nikon about the 200/2: http://imaging.nikon.com/history/nikkor/31/index.htm
From this article I get the impression that the optical lens design remained the same for all versions.
The Nikon Lens Specification page lists all four versions and the optical specifications seem to be identical: http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/specs.html
The MIR pahe does not list any optical differences between the versions: http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/180200mmnikkor/200mma.htm
Bjørn Rørslett does not mention optical differences between versions:
http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_short.html
I wonder if there really were gradual small improvements between the versions. Any references pointing to this?
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Boomer Depp
Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 552
Location: Kingston,Washighton
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:04 am Post subject: |
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Boomer Depp wrote:
Yup...a lot of other photographers including myself read all that....Stopped wondering and speculating about it as well,til the subject came up again earlier this year...not worth fretting over AFAIC.
The only changes I saw or can confirm are;
The first demo versions didn't have ED glass,and were an external focus mechanism.The lens was revised to an AI in 1977 and used two ED glass elements and was redesigned with an internal focusing mechanism.
The next official change the lens was given another upgrade as AI-S,with an increase in the diameter from 128mm to 138mm with the length remaining at 214mm,with no mention of change in the optical scheme(after this cosmetic change,it was reported photographers who had shot the AI version noticed the new version was a wee bit sharper wide open....could be that their skills improved focusing wide open...or perhaps they had originally shot one of the few external focus versions which didn't have ED glass...it would be hard for me to ascertain with an absoluteness, since I never shot the external focus version without ED glass or either of the AI versions with ED glass of the lens).
In the late 80's when the N version came out,a fixed 122mm built-in UV filter was added,and a gelatin filter with slide-in tray was also added(AFAIC,by adding this extra piece of UV glass,should if anything decline image quality....but I never noticed a difference in image quality between my AI-S version and the new AI-S n versions).There was also a change in the diameter from 138mm to 132mm and the length was increased from 214mm to 225.5 mm,and an increase in weight from 2400g to2550g.
In all these changes it was always stated in print; 10 elements(two of which were ED glass) in eight groups.
The article by the Nikon Historian is a riot and good for a laugh.
What is telling about this report is this statement by the author>"This lens provides sharpness even at the full open aperture, and it improves the sharpness when stopping down to f/2.8 to f/4. At f/5.6 to 11, the sharpness is further improved, resulting in almost uniform image quality".
From my experience with three different copies of the lens,the lens is sharpest at f2.8 to f4...by f5.6 contrast increases with a slight decline in sharpness...beyond f5.6 image sharpness declines rapidly.
It's been a while since I read that article...but since then, I haven't read any of the other Nikkor lens histories on that website,concluding it has more propaganda in the other reviews.
My grandpa used to say,"advertisers major in misrepresentation and minor in deception".
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Last edited by Boomer Depp on Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tanheis
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 507
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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tanheis wrote:
Hi
I have the latest AI-S series of the lens and I must say it is sharp indeed wide open with 5D MK II.
http://koti.mbnet.fi/tanheis/kuvia/lenses/nikkor200-2/200-2-nikkorTest1_1.jpg
Test image
http://koti.mbnet.fi/tanheis/kuvia/lenses/nikkor200-2/200-2-nikkorTest1_100.jpg
100% crop
http://koti.mbnet.fi/tanheis/o-m/eero1.jpg
One testshot of my friend while shooting weddings with this lens (wide open)
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EOS 5D mk II
Lenses: Zeiss Distagon T* 15/2.8, Nikkor 24mm 2.8, Pentacon 30 3.5, SMC Takumar 50 1.4, Nikon 50mm 1.4 AI-S & non-AI ones,Olympus OM Zuiko 28/2,Pentacon 50 1.8,Industar-50 50mm 3.5(silver & black) Tamron SP 90mm 2.5, Tokina 28-85 4, Tamron SP 35-80 2.8-3.8, Zeiss 15mm 2.8 ZE Distagon, Zeiss Tessar 45/2.8, Zeiss Planar 85/1.4,Nikon 105mm 1.8,Nikon 200/2 ED-IF AI-S,Seimar 135 2.8, Tamron SP 300mm 5.6, Tamron SP 60-300 3.8-5.4, Tamron SP 500mm 8.0 Mirror, Zenit Photosniper + Tair-3, Canon FD 800 5.6L - EOS converted
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Canon EOS M
Canon EF-M 22mm f/2 STM
Olympus PEN-F 42mm f/1.2 |
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Boomer Depp
Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 552
Location: Kingston,Washighton
Expire: 2011-12-04
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:10 am Post subject: |
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Boomer Depp wrote:
Beautiful dog and lovely examples what the lens is capable of...
BTW....is that a husky/wolf cross breed?
One final observation...seems like many of these lenses end up in northern countries...way north....
Speaking of land where the sun doesn't set....met my wife in Alaska almost 40 years ago....only had one camera and lens then...
My darling wife today...she's still lovely to me and has held her age well....and I just keep looking older...
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Boomer Depp
Joined: 08 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:44 am Post subject: |
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Boomer Depp wrote:
On an old full frame digital...the 1Ds2 @ less then MFD,with tubes which degrade the image.
The lens usually doesn't work well with tubes....but in a portrait shot like this where detail isn't critical, it does.
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pich900
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1745
Location: The Netherlands/Zwolle
Expire: 2012-12-27
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:57 am Post subject: |
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pich900 wrote:
@ tanheis: great shot from the dog, the lens is indeed very sharp but that's what you can expect from such expensive lens...
@ Boomer: lovely shining portrait from your wife  .....
some samples I have posted on the forum few months ago:
http://forum.mflenses.com/some-portrait-shots-with-nikkor-ai-s-200-2-t34051,highlight,%2Bnikkor.html
I'm very curious to see how this lens would perform on Nex!
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All my lenses are for sale, nikkor, Angenieux, Zeiss etc.....
Regards,
Pascal
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tanheis
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 507
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:40 am Post subject: |
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tanheis wrote:
| Boomer Depp wrote: |
Beautiful dog and lovely examples what the lens is capable of...
BTW....is that a husky/wolf cross breed?
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Husky (mother is a sledge competition husky and might be the reason for the small size) + tundra wolf mixed.
Very nice fellow. Lot's of energy and hunting instinct is VERY strong but also very humble for the master.
Doesn't really trust strangers but the ones he knows are nice friends and no problem at all.
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EOS 5D mk II
Lenses: Zeiss Distagon T* 15/2.8, Nikkor 24mm 2.8, Pentacon 30 3.5, SMC Takumar 50 1.4, Nikon 50mm 1.4 AI-S & non-AI ones,Olympus OM Zuiko 28/2,Pentacon 50 1.8,Industar-50 50mm 3.5(silver & black) Tamron SP 90mm 2.5, Tokina 28-85 4, Tamron SP 35-80 2.8-3.8, Zeiss 15mm 2.8 ZE Distagon, Zeiss Tessar 45/2.8, Zeiss Planar 85/1.4,Nikon 105mm 1.8,Nikon 200/2 ED-IF AI-S,Seimar 135 2.8, Tamron SP 300mm 5.6, Tamron SP 60-300 3.8-5.4, Tamron SP 500mm 8.0 Mirror, Zenit Photosniper + Tair-3, Canon FD 800 5.6L - EOS converted
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Canon EOS M
Canon EF-M 22mm f/2 STM
Olympus PEN-F 42mm f/1.2 |
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56 DIN
Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Posts: 1656
Location: Germany Erbach /ODW
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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56 DIN wrote:
made with a AIs before the built in front glass, but with Nikon LC filter
100 % crop
made with monopod
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NEX & manual lenses
Nikon & manual lenses |
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Boomer Depp
Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 552
Location: Kingston,Washighton
Expire: 2011-12-04
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Boomer Depp wrote:
Thank you...I like it when she smiles,which fortunately is often.
Excellent shots there!
BTW....You're a lucky man to be blessed with such adorable children!
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Pontus
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 1471
Location: Jakobstad, Finland
Expire: 2016-08-25
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Pontus wrote:
The first picture I took with my Nikkor 200/2 Ai after receiving it tonight. It's very dark outside, picture taken with ISO 800, f2.0, 1/10s on a tripod. Just for fun 
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Boomer Depp
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Posts: 552
Location: Kingston,Washighton
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Boomer Depp wrote:
Sweet!
Bet your one happy camper getting to play with that thin depth of field.
Took mine out for some exercise last week...For these pics mounted it on the 1.3 crop sensor Canon 1D2n....all shots wide open @ ISO 100.
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Last edited by Boomer Depp on Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Pontus
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 1471
Location: Jakobstad, Finland
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Pontus wrote:
Very, very nice!
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pich900
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1745
Location: The Netherlands/Zwolle
Expire: 2012-12-27
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:47 am Post subject: |
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pich900 wrote:
I must not look at this topic, otherwise I'll seriously regret selling mine  ....
Congrats Pontus for your new toy  .....
_________________
All my lenses are for sale, nikkor, Angenieux, Zeiss etc.....
Regards,
Pascal
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Boomer Depp
Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 552
Location: Kingston,Washighton
Expire: 2011-12-04
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Boomer Depp wrote:
Just remind yourself of the weight and setup time Pascal.....
Once the leviathan is mounted it usually stays on a body for a week or two.
Mounted here on the full frame Canon 1Ds MK II wide open @ ISO 100
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Last edited by Boomer Depp on Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:33 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Pontus
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 1471
Location: Jakobstad, Finland
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Pontus wrote:
A couple of floral shots from tonight. Wide open. Getting dark outside.
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Boomer Depp
Joined: 08 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:28 am Post subject: |
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Boomer Depp wrote:
Nice Pontus!
Were those with the NEX 5N or the Alpha 900 full frame?
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