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Need advice on lens lubrication grease.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I am looking to buy some grease,for my CZJ lenses the Pancolar 2/50 and Tessar 2.8/50,did anyone come to a conclusion about which grease is the better...the Micro tools light grease or the lithium grease?


PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
There's no spec's for the Microtools grease, although I'm sure it is OK as they sell it for the purpose of regreasing helicoids. It is very expensive though. When you compare it to something like this Molycote light grease in a far bigger quantity, for a lot less cost, and there is tech info on the grease. It's designed for low torque applications, it's light enough to be used on instruments and clock mechanisms where drag is a very unwanted feature, the temperature range is very broad, so it looks good.

https://www.ellsworth.com/products/by-manufacturer/dow-corning/lubricant-products/grease/dow-corning-molykote-33-extreme-low-temperature-bearing-grease-light-off-white-150-g-tube/

I use ordinary light bearing grease, the sort of stuff mechanics use for bicycle cranks, lenses don't see the extremes of temperature or pressures between friction surfaces that a bearing is going to see, and general purpose grease is designed to work for. Modern silicone greases don't have the separation problems that old greases have either.
Don't be tempted to use Molybdenum disulfide grease, that is notorious for leeching oil.

http://forum.mflenses.com/molybdenum-disulfide-grease-why-i-wont-use-it-t63387.html

I hate the stuff ! Rolling Eyes


PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks Lloydy,Choosing a lens helicoid grease shouldn't be rocket science should it?


PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is where Micro-Tool gets their grease from.
http://japan-hobby-tool.com/shopdetail/000000001094/ct5/page1/order/

I've been the most satisfied with this grease(#10), which I'm almost out of, I'll be buying more, plus I'm going to try the (#30) and see what it's like.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you,it's a great link as well....so many useful tools.

Is it fair to say one grease suits all lenses? Or should we treat zooms differently from say a smaller lens like a 50s, and treat older lenses differently to newer lenses?


PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Zooms typically use different lubricants for different purposes, the focus helicoids will be fine with the same stuff pretty much across the board(any lens with focus helical), the zoom mechanism will require something with more viscosity to it so there is no zoom creep.

With the #10 grease, you don't need very much, a little goes a long way, I've used it on everything from an 300/5.6 down to a 28/2.8, it provides a light and smooth feel, for best results, the helicoid must be as clean as possible.


PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
For the past 25 years, I've used mostly molybdenum disulfide grease on helicals -- it's a medium viscosity grease, silver-gray in color, I buy at auto parts stores for a few bucks per tub. In fact, I still have the original tub I bought over 25 years ago, and the grease shows no signs of degradation.

I've also used the white lithium grease. It works well too, has the same general properties, although I think it might be just a bit thinner than the moly-d stuff.


PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
http://forum.mflenses.com/molybdenum-disulfide-grease-why-i-wont-use-it-t63387.html
It may have to do with the brand and type of grease as to weather it will separate out.


PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just found this
http://www.microlubrol.com/krytoxgpl205lubricantgrease-2oz57gmtube-4-3-3-1-2.aspx


PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
http://forum.mflenses.com/molybdenum-disulfide-grease-why-i-wont-use-it-t63387.html
It may have to do with the brand and type of grease as to weather it will separate out.


Interesting. I couldn't tell you what the brand is that I use. In fact, the original tub got crushed partly so I scooped all the grease out and put it in a plastic tub that originally held crab claw meat. So anyway, I have never seen any pooling of oils with the MDS grease I use. And in fact, if I would have seen pooling, I would have stopped using it. Now, while we're on this subject, I have seen some mild separation of lithium grease before, but it was usually a very small amount, so I didn't worry too much about it. I have only seldom used the lithium grease on helicals. Mostly I use it as an engine assembly lube.


PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for the continued discussion,I am learning something new all the time....even if its just about different types of grease and their properties.


PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
With lens lube there are two principal considerations:

1. You do not want lens elements to become fogged - ever. So no volatiles allowed in the lube.
2. You want correct and stable viscosity over a very wide range of temperatures.

There is only one product which meets both of these requirements. It is made specifically to lube lenses:

Click here to see on Ebay then you must click See full item description

The stinkers have raised the price since I bought my last lot. I should have bought more but the darn stuff lasts forever. And sales continue apace world wide regardless. Note they have 200 watchers. Lens rebuilders know this product.

It's a little less expensive if you buy the larger size:

Click here to see on Ebay


PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow, thanks for that link! It's always nice to know of the "proper" tool or item for a repair. I note with some levity that the worst they can manage to say about moly DS is that it's "messy". Not if you're neat in your application of it.


PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I had that bookmarked in my ebay...as a watcher Laughing But since I am new to the game and about to take the next step, regreasing a helicoid I thought I would check in here first and seek opinions. I am glad I did as you guys are always willing to share your knowledge.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
Wow, thanks for that link! It's always nice to know of the "proper" tool or item for a repair. I note with some levity that the worst they can manage to say about moly DS is that it's "messy". Not if you're neat in your application of it.

I will give the Helimax grease a try, if for no other reason than to provide feedback to the site.

I do know that 2 greases that share a name/type can in fact have very different properties, one could be very usable for our purpose, and another the exact opposite, for example Lloydy's and cooltouch's experience with MDS grease.
I've done a few tests to see how easily the oil seperates out of the grease, place a small dab of grease on brown paper, or cardboard and watch to see how fast the oil spreads.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
cooltouch wrote:
Wow, thanks for that link! It's always nice to know of the "proper" tool or item for a repair. I note with some levity that the worst they can manage to say about moly DS is that it's "messy". Not if you're neat in your application of it.

I will give the Helimax grease a try, if for no other reason than to provide feedback to the site.

I do know that 2 greases that share a name/type can in fact have very different properties, one could be very usable for our purpose, and another the exact opposite, for example Lloydy's and cooltouch's experience with MDS grease.
I've done a few tests to see how easily the oil seperates out of the grease, place a small dab of grease on brown paper, or cardboard and watch to see how fast the oil spreads.


I like your idea.

Because I have an outsized negative reaction to fogging of my lenses, my primary lube test is olfactory in nature. I'm forced to write in generalities here, while in reality the olfactory specifics for individuals are quite . . . well . . . "individualized". Very Happy

So in general when testing your lens lube of choice here is MHO:

If you are a smoker and can, nevertheless, detect any odor whatsoever when sniffing your lube: throw it out

If you cannot yourself detect any volatiles coming off your lens lube when doing the sniff test, and if you are fortunate enough to have available the services of a child or grandchild, age 8 or older being the age of preference, have the child perform the sniff test and be guided by that outcome. Here is the reference which mentions kids age 8 and older being at the height of olfactory proficiency and capability:

http://www.sirc.org/publik/smell_human.html

That report also makes mention of the superior olfactory sensitivity of women. So if you are a male MF lens owner with a "spouse in the house", bow out gracefully and allow your available and superior female nose to check your lens lube.

All of this is nice for those of us with a choice of lens lubes. But I have many tens of older MF lenses which harbor, I'm certain, volatile factory-applied lubricants. A number of wet apertures alone confirms this. And you cannot tear apart and properly re-lube every lens, wonderful and comforting as that option would be. So to minimize volatile "boil-off" I keep my lenses as cool as possible. After that I hope for the best. Wink


PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi everyone,

I would avoid silicone grease, since that creeps with time. I've used MOLYKOTE EM-30L (same as PG-30L EM-30LG) on Nikkor helicals many, many times and it works great. It's a light lithium grease (NLGI1) with an operating range of -49ºF to 302ºF (-45ºC to +150ºC). It's not that expensive and you can find it on eBay.

http://www.dowcorning.com/applications/search/products/Details.aspx?prod=01843516&type=PROD


PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting comments vis-a-vis women and children having better olfactory abilities. I certainly believe this to be true among children, at least. When she was a child, my daughter would often comment about the way something smelled when neither my wife nor I could detect anything.

There's one caveat, though, and that has to do with smoking. I don't smoke. I managed to quit (again) and I've been off tobacco for about a year now. My wife smokes, however, and she will not quit. I now find myself in the situation where I will often detect odors that she cannot.

I've quit before -- several times for multi-years -- and this is one thing I've long known to be true -- smokers' sense of smell is not as good as non-smokers. So if you're thinking about performing this olfactory test and if either of you smoke, you might want to keep that in mind.


PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
Interesting comments vis-a-vis women and children having better olfactory abilities. I certainly believe this to be true among children, at least. When she was a child, my daughter would often comment about the way something smelled when neither my wife nor I could detect anything.

There's one caveat, though, and that has to do with smoking. I don't smoke. I managed to quit (again) and I've been off tobacco for about a year now. My wife smokes, however, and she will not quit. I now find myself in the situation where I will often detect odors that she cannot.

I've quit before -- several times for multi-years -- and this is one thing I've long known to be true -- smokers' sense of smell is not as good as non-smokers. So if you're thinking about performing this olfactory test and if either of you smoke, you might want to keep that in mind.


Yes. Agreed.

This is why I wrote earlier that smokers able to smell their lube need to discard it straightaway and not use that lube on lenses. If the lube has so many volatiles that even a smoker can detect them, it will fog your glass and moisten your aperture sooner rather than later.

Ideally, lens lube should have no odor whatsoever. Even your dog should not be able to smell its presence. Anyone able to train his dog for this duty is a step ahead of the rest of us! Very Happy
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