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Medium teles infinity tested: Zeiss, Voigtländer, Nikkor
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:10 am    Post subject: Medium teles infinity tested: Zeiss, Voigtländer, Nikkor Reply with quote
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
All those lenses are so good at f/5.6 they outperform the D3 sensor; results are more affected by my possible focusing mistakes and different field of view.

LENSES
Carl Zeiss Planar T* 85/1.4 ZF
Voigtländer SL 90/3.5 APO-Lanthar
Nikkor 105/2.5 Ai
Voigtländer SL 125/2.5 APO-Lanthar
Voigtländer SL 180/4 APO-Lanthar

EDIT: Waste of time, like most pixel-peeping Laughing Laughing Laughing

Last edited by Esox lucius on Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:00 pm; edited 8 times in total


PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Great test! Versy nice results indeed. My findings regarding Planar T* 85/1.4 ZF vs 90/3.5 APO-Lanthar are similar to yours. I think that Planar 85/1.4 is more reliable in the terms of universality. Both the lens rock.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Vilhelm wrote:
However, when you nail focus detail is out of this world. This lens deserves the very best DSLR sensor money can buy

at 5.6 differences between to lenses are difficult to spot
especially on an outdated sensor like the D3
atmospheric visibility play for more than the lenses
small details can make a difference
take the horizontal security bars on the upper windows
Nikon & Zeiss resolve them and you can count them
both apo miss them, only barely visible on the 125 who cannot resolve details of a 85
maybe 'detail is out of this world' is overrated Laughing
85-90-105-125


PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, you are right; adjectives should be avoided especially when translations change meaning: I put in my experience from macro use in that particular sentence. In this world and existing macro lenses for DSLR, and here the macro lens is used at infinity - not close-up...

I could also have run unsharpen mask etc. on them and make them look like everything else on the internet. Fact is with glass of this quality they look good already with almost no sharpening in RAW conversion.

All those lenses are so good they outperform the D3 sensor; results are more affected by my possible focusing mistakes and different field of view.

I used what I have: D3 sensor is not the best sensor for detailed landscapes, cross-system/body comparisons are not applicable. Give me a D3x and I'll re-shoot it Very Happy

While your description of "outdated" may apply to D3 in landscape use it is somewhat exaggerated: Two and a half year old D3 sensor has same color depth and dynamic range but better high ISO performance than all newer Canon sensors. Check http://www.dxomark.com sensor comparisons if you disagree.

Last edited by Esox lucius on Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:41 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Vilhelm wrote:
Your description of "outdated", while it does apply to landscape use, is somewhat exaggerated: Two year old D3 sensor has same dynamic range but better high ISO performance than all newer Canon sensors

sorry for the black humor of a Canon user Embarassed
the fact that the Sony sensor is better at high iso and that the 5DII can show banding even at low iso is hard for us


PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
No offense taken Cool

I would love to own a large sensor for landscapes, but I can't afford two pro bodies when most of my bills are paid with press and high ISO photography. Which is partly also why I have put my money into quality glass that I believe will outlive present DSLR sensors.

Last edited by Esox lucius on Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:46 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for doing this comparison.

What hoods were used?


PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Original Zeiss hood, original Nikkor hood, original round LH-75 for 90/3.5 & 180/4 and original square for 125/2.5


PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
the apo 180 resolve more security bars than the 125 but still less than the Nikkor 105 & Zeiss 85


PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
In April I will redo test with D3x. I was freezing my fingers off in the cold wind and while I used Live View to confirm focus I am not sure if I locked focus correctly.

Why do I mention this? Because almost all lenses focused ever so slightly beyond infinity, when looking at the Live View screen. Could be design, theoretically it also could be the cold weather - wind chill factor was -25 C when I did the shoot.

All lenses are designed to focus beyond infinity. Temperature extremes can expand or contract lens barrels and shorten or lengthen them which in turn can alter the actual focus points on the lens. The reason they focus beyond infinity is to allow for infinity focus if those changes occur.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've been shooting the CV 180 lately, to learn of its resolving power at infinity (on a D700). Below are two sets of images, the first with its crop just beneath (f/5.6, ISO 200) is focused at infinity while the second with its crop (f/8, ISO 200) is at about 2.5 metres distance. Its peak performance appears to me to be at near and medium distances, although from this example, the results at infinity are not too shabby either; the red lamps to the left of the microwave antenna are almost invisible on the full-frame. While not directly compared, my old Nikkor 180/2.8 ED might deliver up slightly sharper images at infinity albeit marred by chromatic aberration. I am curious how the Leica APO 180/3.4 sizes up, a lens optimized for infinity focus.




Last edited by james on Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:06 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I find this yet another example of how careful methods are required to really test lens characteristics. I find my 125/2.5 better for closer distances, while my 180/4 seems better at medium to infinity than near focusing limit. This is a feeling built from field use, though poor methodology could not determine here how it really is.

Elusive, yes. At peak performance, they outresolve my sensor. Add focusing mistakes (possible) and atmospheric conditions. Well, shorty I will have two 180/4 in N/Ai-S mount to test, I will see if they behave differently.

Bottom line is: with glass of this caliber, sample variation is mostly due to photographer Very Happy


PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Vilhelm wrote:
In April I will redo test with D3x

the security bars with the Carl Zeiss Planar T* 85/1.4 ZF are 1 pixel width
that correspond to 60lp/mm, maximum of the D3
the Carl Zeiss Planar T* 85/1.4 ZF resolve 250 lp/mm at 5.6
the d3x have a resolving power of 85 lp/mm, not enough for the ZF but probably to much for the Apo's

http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/024b91f46d590a3fc125711c00693b3f

Zeiss wrote:

The best we had ever achieved before with any SLR lenses was 250 lp/mm.
The new Planar T* 1.4/85 ZF achieved that same resolution at f/5.6, and even down to f/2.
The new Planar T* 1,4/50 ZF went even further: It reached 320 lp/mm in the aperture range from f/5.6 to f/2.8, and 250 lp/mm at f/2



PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very cool poilu, thank you!. You saved me another few hours of time otherwise wasted.

It's been a boring month with too cold weather, I have really not done any real photography, just some catalogue shoots and some straight forward PJ work. I am leaving for a 4 week assignment shortly, which will give me the opportunity to finally get all this glass into real use in weather which does not cause my beard to freeze Very Happy

When I'm back I'll dump this thread and bring some travel shots *knock knock*
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