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Noritar
Joined: 25 Jul 2024 Posts: 20
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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 4:03 am Post subject: Mamiya 645 lens questions and observations. Build quality. |
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Noritar wrote:
I've started acquiring MF Sekor lenses for Mamiya 645. I've read countless threads and have picked up a couple lenses so far and have more on the way.
The C vs C N debate: I understand that the N lenses are newer and have different coatings. The C lenses are more robust and heavier. The newer lenses are said to have more plastic parts. I have in front of me a 55/2.8 C N and a 80/2.8 C N. The 80 was clearly Mamiya's budget standard lens. I've read complaints that the newer lenses have a plastic lens barrel that can crack. The 80/2.8 C N I have has a plastic barrel, but the 55/2.8 clearly has a metal lens barrel. So do other lenses besides the 80/2.8 have plastic lens barrels or just that focal length? They both have plastic control rings, which doesn't really bother me.
Focus is surprisingly smooth and light on both with a short focus throw. These are nice little lenses.
Are the pre-N lenses similar in handling? I plan to buy an 80/1.9 which is a little pricier lately. Should I consider the non-N version if build quality is a concern? I intend to use these for video, so smooth focus is a higher priority than contrast.
Next purchases are the 35, 110, 150 A, and 200 APO. But I'm trying to decide (besides the 150 and 200) if I should focus on C lenses or N.
Also, is that earlier 70/2.8 worth picking up?
Thank you. |
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LittleAlex
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 27 Nov 2008 Posts: 1657 Location: L'vov (Western Ukraine)
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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 7:24 am Post subject: |
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LittleAlex wrote:
https://forum.mflenses.com/mamiya-sekor-645-c-35mm-f3-5-haze-inside-the-lens-t84981.html _________________ "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept" - © H. Cartier Bresson |
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caspert79
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3112 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
I have several C lenses, and I’m terms of handling they are as good as it gets IMO. Very precise focusing with the right resistance, very good aperture control as well. Also, I had my C 105-210/4.5 adjusted for infinity by my local camera guy, and he was impressed by its build quality (and optics).
My experience is with the 210/4, 300/5.6, 105-210/4.5, and 120/4 macro. All of them are excellent IMO. |
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stevemark
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3908 Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
I have about twenty Mamiya Sekor C and CN lenses, and two of them both as C and CN: The 2.8/45mm and the 5.6/300mm. Apart from the focusing rubber I can't see any differences. Focusing on both CN lenses feels slightly stiffer. Their optical perfomance is identical (even though the C 5.6/300 doesn't have the "ULD" markings of the CN 5.6/300mm ULD.
That said, the Mamiya Sekor C lineup has some really excellent lenses, among them the Sekor A 4/120mm Macro, the Sekor C 4/210mm and the Sekor C/CN 5.6/300mm (ULD). The Soft Focus 4.5/145mm is remarkable as well due its smooth bokeh and relatively long focal length. On the other hand the C 1.9/80mm and 2/80mm as well as the 2.8/45mm and 3.5/35mm lenses are nothing special if used on 35mm FF sensors.
S _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
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Noritar
Joined: 25 Jul 2024 Posts: 20
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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Noritar wrote:
stevemark wrote: |
even though the C 5.6/300 doesn't have the "ULD" markings of the CN 5.6/300mm ULD.
S |
I noticed that the C and C N 5.6/300 look essentially identical. I picked up a "ULD" marked one for what amounts to "free". Looking forward to trying it out. |
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Noritar
Joined: 25 Jul 2024 Posts: 20
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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Noritar wrote:
LittleAlex wrote: |
https://forum.mflenses.com/mamiya-sekor-645-c-35mm-f3-5-haze-inside-the-lens-t84981.html |
Thanks for that information. I'm noticing balsam separation in the description of a significant number of early C lenses. |
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jamaeolus
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 19 Mar 2014 Posts: 2958 Location: Eugene
Expire: 2015-08-20
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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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jamaeolus wrote:
Another plug for the C 120mm f4 macro. Impressive resolution and very nice bokeh. _________________ photos are moments frozen in time |
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jjphoto
![Level 2 Level 2](rating2.gif) Joined: 17 Mar 2009 Posts: 410
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Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2024 2:24 am Post subject: Re: Mamiya 645 lens questions and observations. Build qualit |
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jjphoto wrote:
Noritar wrote: |
...The 80/2.8 C N I have has a plastic barrel, but the 55/2.8 clearly has a metal lens barrel. So do other lenses besides the 80/2.8 have plastic lens barrels or just that focal length? They both have plastic control rings, which doesn't really bother me....Thank you. |
I have these M645 lenses (lens, metal/plastic barrel/issues or notes):
35/3.5N, metal, haze or separation rear elements
45/2.8N, metal, no issues
55/2.8N, plastic, no issues
80/2.8N, plastic, no issues
80/1.9N, metal, no issues
110/2.8N, metal, no issues
A120/4, metal, no issues
A150/2.8, metal, internal flocking sucks dust into lens so effectively there is haze but not separation (bad design)
Noritar wrote: |
... I plan to buy an 80/1.9 which is a little pricier lately. Should I consider the non-N version if build quality is a concern? I intend to use these for video, so smooth focus is a higher priority than contrast.
... |
The 80/1.9 N is one of my favourite lenses, although it purple fringes a lot wide open it's still very sharp. Excellent from F2. it's great as a portrait lens wide open and at F2.
The 110, 120 and 150 are excellent lenses.
The 110/2.8 is just superb, high contrast, very sharp wide open.
The A120 is excellent but has a hotspot issue when stopped down a lot, as you typically do with a macro.
The A150/2.8 is a dust magnet and seems to suck flocking into itself so whilst very sharp it has it's own issues.
I tend not to use the 35, 55 and 45 although the 45/2.8N is excellent, as it should be considering how slow it is.
I think there are different optical designs of the 45.
As mentioned elsewhere, there may be a separation issue with the 35mm lenses. I have the 35N which seems to show signs of separation. |
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Noritar
Joined: 25 Jul 2024 Posts: 20
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Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2024 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Mamiya 645 lens questions and observations. Build qualit |
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Noritar wrote:
jjphoto wrote: |
55/2.8N, plastic, no issues
The 110/2.8 is just superb, high contrast, very sharp wide open.
I tend not to use the 35, 55 and 45 although the 45/2.8N is excellent, as it should be considering how slow it is.
I think there are different optical designs of the 45.
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That's odd about your 55/2.8 N having a plastic barrel. Mine is metal. The serial number is stamped in the plastic aperture control ring, but the lens barrel and filter threads are metal.
The 110/2.8 is on the top of my buy list. Everyone seems to love that lens. |
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Himself
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 01 Mar 2007 Posts: 3235 Location: Montreal
Expire: 2013-05-30
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Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2024 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Himself wrote:
jamaeolus wrote: |
Another plug for the C 120mm f4 macro. Impressive resolution and very nice bokeh. |
Hear, hear! _________________ Moderator Himself |
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KEO
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 27 Sep 2018 Posts: 771 Location: USA
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Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2024 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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KEO wrote:
stevemark wrote: |
the Mamiya Sekor C lineup has some really excellent lenses, among them the Sekor A 4/120mm Macro, the Sekor C 4/210mm and the Sekor C/CN 5.6/300mm (ULD). |
I too back up stevemark's assertion here. I bought all three of these lenses to use on my GFX, and they're all excellent.
I also agree that the 120 Macro is good for a lot more than just macro. I've gotten some great portraits with that one, and it does indeed have very nice bokeh (as does the 210, for that matter). |
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caspert79
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3112 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Mamiya 645 lens questions and observations. Build qualit |
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caspert79 wrote:
Noritar wrote: |
jjphoto wrote: |
55/2.8N, plastic, no issues
The 110/2.8 is just superb, high contrast, very sharp wide open.
I tend not to use the 35, 55 and 45 although the 45/2.8N is excellent, as it should be considering how slow it is.
I think there are different optical designs of the 45.
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That's odd about your 55/2.8 N having a plastic barrel. Mine is metal. The serial number is stamped in the plastic aperture control ring, but the lens barrel and filter threads are metal.
The 110/2.8 is on the top of my buy list. Everyone seems to love that lens. |
I forgot to mention that I briefly owned that lens. While it’s a good lens, I didn’t find it any better (on FF) than let’s say the very affordable Minolta AF 100/2.8 macro. In fact, I think the Minolta has slightly better resolution wide open. What I díd like about the lens however, is relatively round bokeh all over the frame because it is a medium format lens. |
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LittleAlex
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 27 Nov 2008 Posts: 1657 Location: L'vov (Western Ukraine)
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Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2024 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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LittleAlex wrote:
Himself wrote: |
jamaeolus wrote: |
Another plug for the C 120mm f4 macro. Impressive resolution and very nice bokeh. |
Hear, hear! |
There is the dedicate topic:
https://forum.mflenses.com/mamiya-sekor-c-lens-image-t84700,highlight,%2Bmamiya.html _________________ "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept" - © H. Cartier Bresson |
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LittleAlex
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 27 Nov 2008 Posts: 1657 Location: L'vov (Western Ukraine)
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Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2024 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: Mamiya 645 lens questions and observations. Build qualit |
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LittleAlex wrote:
Noritar wrote: |
The 80/2.8 C N I have has a plastic barrel,
Thank you. |
Well, but it does it's job quite well:
https://i.ibb.co/0nfhTtz/CF016258-min.jpg _________________ "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept" - © H. Cartier Bresson |
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LittleAlex
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 27 Nov 2008 Posts: 1657 Location: L'vov (Western Ukraine)
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Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2024 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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LittleAlex wrote:
caspert79 wrote: |
My experience is with the 210/4,. |
Well, it is really perfect lens for portraiture:
![](https://i.ibb.co/mNcdwjh/CF016131-min.jpg) _________________ "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept" - © H. Cartier Bresson |
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jjphoto
![Level 2 Level 2](rating2.gif) Joined: 17 Mar 2009 Posts: 410
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Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2024 11:24 pm Post subject: Re: Mamiya 645 lens questions and observations. Build qualit |
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jjphoto wrote:
caspert79 wrote: |
...
I forgot to mention that I briefly owned that lens. While it’s a good lens, I didn’t find it any better (on FF) than let’s say the very affordable Minolta AF 100/2.8 macro. In fact, I think the Minolta has slightly better resolution wide open. What I díd like about the lens however, is relatively round bokeh all over the frame because it is a medium format lens. |
I think approx 100mm is a kind of sweet spot for lens designers so it's not hard to make a really good one, as long as it's fairly slow (IMHO F2.8 is slow).
Interesting point about the bokeh and I suspect this would be the case with most medium format lenses because they effectively avoid mechanical vignetting altogether (when used on smaller formats). |
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LittleAlex
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 27 Nov 2008 Posts: 1657 Location: L'vov (Western Ukraine)
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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LittleAlex wrote:
Really to say the later AF lenses were very nice indeed. And very nicely performed also.
For example - the very last zoom in that system (Mamiya Secor D ZOOM AF 75-150mm 4.5) is build as a tank, all metal, and performs incredibly starting from the open diagram. There are some samples of it:
https://forum.mflenses.com/phase-one-645-dfand-p-25-mamiya-secor-d-zoom-af-75-150mm-4-5-t85353.html _________________ "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept" - © H. Cartier Bresson |
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caspert79
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3112 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
Very Nice !
Last edited by caspert79 on Tue Jul 30, 2024 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LittleAlex
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 27 Nov 2008 Posts: 1657 Location: L'vov (Western Ukraine)
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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LittleAlex wrote:
caspert79 wrote: |
Very Nice ? |
Well, in it's own class, of course.
At least that sample is all metal. Excluding the blend of course.
And quite heavy unfortunately. _________________ "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept" - © H. Cartier Bresson |
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caspert79
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3112 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
Sorry, I’m having some issues with mixing up exclamation marks and question marks lately. |
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LittleAlex
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 27 Nov 2008 Posts: 1657 Location: L'vov (Western Ukraine)
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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LittleAlex wrote:
caspert79 wrote: |
Sorry, I’m having some issues with mixing up exclamation marks and question marks lately. |
![Laugh 1](images/smiles/laugh-1.gif) _________________ "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept" - © H. Cartier Bresson |
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LittleAlex
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 27 Nov 2008 Posts: 1657 Location: L'vov (Western Ukraine)
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Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2024 5:34 am Post subject: |
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LittleAlex wrote:
caspert79 wrote: |
Very Nice ! |
https://photographylife.com/lenses/mamiya-75-150mm-f4-5-d _________________ "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept" - © H. Cartier Bresson |
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