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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:34 am Post subject: MACRO, according to woodrim |
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woodrim wrote:
Still pretty new to macro, I learned a few things today. First though, I must say I'm getting tired of working this same flowery bush, but it's the only one in my yard that stays green and produces flowers all through the winter.
I've learned that, on average, a bee stays on a flower almost as long as it takes to focus a manual lens. Bees somehow know which flowers are being cased, and they land on all other flowers. And if you move to a new flower, guess where the bee will then land. I felt like killing one of the little ba#@%&ds and sticking him on a flower.
Anyway, I've also learned that true macro is very frustrating. For me, close up is a much better choice. I've found that using my 90mm in 1:1 mode, or close to it, provides so shallow a depth of field that I'm challenged to get what I want in focus. Part of this is my eyes, I'm sure, but still, the focus is generally too shallow to get meaningful captures of three dimensional objects, especially those that move. Today's targets were not just flowers, but bees on the flowers.
What seems to be working for me, and the degree of magnification I want coupled with focus depth, is my 200mm Vivitar lens coupled with the macro adapter for the 90mm Series 1 lens. And I get a very good working distance. I'm certain that I wouldn't have been able to get today's pictures with a true macro. So if you can do without seeing a bee's gonads, this is a good compromise. All from today's session and the standard issue Vivitar 200mm f/3.5
_________________ Regards,
Woodrim |
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mo
Joined: 27 Aug 2009 Posts: 8979 Location: Australia
Expire: 2016-07-30
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:41 am Post subject: |
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mo wrote:
I think you have done better than ok!! I will get my macro this week so will join you in the frustration dept.Did you stick the bees on?? _________________ Moira, Moderator
Fuji XE-1,Pentax K-01,Panasonic G1,Panasonic G5,Pentax MX
Ricoh Singlex TLS,KR-5,KR-5Super,XR-10
Lenses
Auto Rikenon's 55/1.4, 1.8, 2.8... 50/1.7 Takumar 2/58 Preset Takumar 2.8/105 Auto Takumar 2.2/55, 3.5/35 Super Takumar 1.8/55...Macro Takumar F4/50... CZJ Biotar ALU M42 2/58 CZJ Tessar ALU M42 2.8/50
CZJ DDR Flektogon Zebra M42 2.8/35 CZJ Pancolar M42 2/50 CZJ Pancolar Exakta 2/50
Auto Mamiya/Sekor 1.8/55 ...Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2.8/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 200/3.5 Tamron SP500/8 Tamron SP350/5.6 Tamron SP90/2.5
Primoplan 1.9/58 Primagon 4.5/35 Telemegor 5.5/150 Angenieux 3.5/28 Angenieux 3,5/135 Y 2
Canon FL 58/1.2,Canon FL85/1.8,Canon FL 100/3.5,Canon SSC 2.8/100 ,Konica AR 100/2.8, Nikkor P 105/2.5
Last edited by mo on Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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walter g
Joined: 20 Feb 2010 Posts: 2463 Location: NC, USA
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:16 am Post subject: |
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walter g wrote:
Looking good. I just got a set of Vivitar close-up lenses. I'm going to give them a try on my 200mm.
Fustration or luck, we shall see.
More than likely, fustration. _________________
Main cameras
Panasonic G5,Nikon J1,Pentax Q10,Sony Nex 6
Minolta MC W SI 2.5/28, MD 2.8/28, MC W SG 3.5/28, MC Celtic 3.5/28, MC W HG 2.8/35, MD Celtic 2.8/35, QE 4/35, Rokkor X 2/45, MC Rokkor X PG 1.4/50, MC Rokkor X PG 1.7/50, MD Rokkor X 1.7/50, MD 2/50, MC Rokkor PF 1.7/55, MC Rokkor PF 1.9/55, Auto Tele Rokkor PG 2.8/135, MC Tele Rokkor QD 3.5/135, TC 4/135, MC Celtic 4/200, MC Tele Rokkor PE 4.5/200
MD 28-70 f3.5-4.8, MD Macro 35-70 f3.5, Md 70-210 f4, MD Rokkor X 75-200 f4.5, MD 100-200 f5.6
Nikon Nikkor 4/20, O Auto 2/35, S Auto 1.4/50..... Miranda Auto 2.8/28, Auto 2.8/35, Auto 1.4/50, Auto EC 1.4/50, Auto 1.8/50, Auto EC 1.8/50,Auto 1.9/50, Auto 3.5/135
Various Soligor,Sun,Fujita,Komura,Spitatone, etc. Lenses
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 6950 Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:16 am Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
Good captures.
I tried for ages to capture them and found the key is patience and many attempts. Some of my better attempts were with a Helios 44-2 on extension tubes. Working distance was minimal but the bees get used to you after a bit. _________________ Casual attendance these days |
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007 Posts: 10472 Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:28 am Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
great series! macro is a nice hobby to fight stress _________________ T* |
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xjjohnno
Joined: 07 Apr 2009 Posts: 1270 Location: Melbourne Australia
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:44 am Post subject: |
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xjjohnno wrote:
Mosquitoes are a good subject for macro, and if they move you don't feel guilty about giving them a little slap so they stay still. Unfortunately the last mosquitoe I slapped was kind of crushed as a result. |
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PaulC
Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Posts: 2318
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:24 am Post subject: |
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PaulC wrote:
I think you would be feeling something other than guilt if you slapped a bee. _________________ View or buy my photos at:
http://shutterstock.com/g/paulcowan |
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dino1
Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 17 Location: Taunton Somerset UK
Expire: 2014-08-21
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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dino1 wrote:
This works for me.
Make up a sugar solution say a spoonful of sugar mixed with some warm water.
Load some into a small syringe.
Select the flower you want the bee or butterfly to feed from and place a few drops of the solution into middle of the flower.
If and when the bee finds this ( I’m not sure if they can locate it by smell) you will find that he will tend to drink his fill stay put far longer than usual.
If you are lucky enough to own an Apo Lanthar then do a blow up of your shot of the bee and you will definitely be able to see a smile on his face.
dino1 |
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spiralcity
Joined: 02 Oct 2008 Posts: 1207 Location: Chicago, U.S.A
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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spiralcity wrote:
Nice job !
Fast moving insects can be a pain in the arse! _________________ Nikons : F4-EM-FG-FE2-FA-EL-FTN-N2020-N70-F Nikkorex
Fujica: ST605N-ST701-ST705-ST705W-ST801-ST901-AZ1-AX-3
Chinon: CE4s-CM4s-CM5
Pentax: ME-Soptmatic
Ricoh:XR6
Pentax- K10D
Lenses- M42's-Nikon F mount, Pentax PK
FREE PHOTOGRAPHY COURSE |
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spiralcity
Joined: 02 Oct 2008 Posts: 1207 Location: Chicago, U.S.A
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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spiralcity wrote:
dino1 wrote: |
This works for me.
Make up a sugar solution say a spoonful of sugar mixed with some warm water.
Load some into a small syringe.
Select the flower you want the bee or butterfly to feed from and place a few drops of the solution into middle of the flower.
If and when the bee finds this ( I’m not sure if they can locate it by smell) you will find that he will tend to drink his fill stay put far longer than usual.
If you are lucky enough to own an Apo Lanthar then do a blow up of your shot of the bee and you will definitely be able to see a smile on his face.
dino1 |
I tried this with some warm Pepsi, it works to a point. Insects still tend to move quite a bit when feeding and trying to close-focus on a moving object is difficult. _________________ Nikons : F4-EM-FG-FE2-FA-EL-FTN-N2020-N70-F Nikkorex
Fujica: ST605N-ST701-ST705-ST705W-ST801-ST901-AZ1-AX-3
Chinon: CE4s-CM4s-CM5
Pentax: ME-Soptmatic
Ricoh:XR6
Pentax- K10D
Lenses- M42's-Nikon F mount, Pentax PK
FREE PHOTOGRAPHY COURSE |
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Bruce
Joined: 15 Jan 2008 Posts: 842 Location: Boston, Ma USA
Expire: 2014-11-22
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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Bruce wrote:
I take a stiff wire and attach it to my cameras tripod mount [no tripod] and extend it in front of my lens some 12". I prefocused
the lens for the end of the wire and attached a freshly picked flower from the other flowers to the wire.
I just follow the bees at this point till they find me. It doesnt take long!
I get to pick my background too _________________ Digital: Canon 40d & 5DmkII, Film: Hasselblad 203fe/Zeiss 80/2.8 cfe
Adapters for EOS: Cy; M42; Zenit39; Exakta; LeicaR; OlympusOM; PK; Nikon; Rollei35; Retina; Adaptal; P-6 |
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Himself
Joined: 01 Mar 2007 Posts: 3240 Location: Montreal
Expire: 2013-05-30
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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Himself wrote:
Bruce wrote: |
I take a stiff wire and attach it to my cameras tripod mount [no tripod] and extend it in front of my lens some 12". I prefocused
the lens for the end of the wire and attached a freshly picked flower from the other flowers to the wire.
I just follow the bees at this point till they find me. It doesnt take long!
I get to pick my background too |
Excellent advise.
Now waiting for the springtime to come. Not that far. |
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Boomer Depp
Joined: 08 Oct 2009 Posts: 552 Location: Kingston,Washighton
Expire: 2011-12-04
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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Boomer Depp wrote:
Sound like a great idea....Bee Balm Plants and Honeysuckle really attract bees.Could have a go with some large gauge brazing rod or a 3/8" wood dowel, with a cutting off one of these plants attached....Also clover attracts bees.I have never delved into macrophotography of bees,because of waiting for them to land where your set up...this sounds like a neat trick. _________________ Trust that little voice in your head that says "Wouldn't it be interesting if...." And then do it. |
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Bruce
Joined: 15 Jan 2008 Posts: 842 Location: Boston, Ma USA
Expire: 2014-11-22
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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Bruce wrote:
Boomer Depp wrote: |
Sound like a great idea....Bee Balm Plants and Honeysuckle really attract bees.Could have a go with some large gauge brazing rod or a 3/8" wood dowel, with a cutting off one of these plants attached....Also clover attracts bees.I have never delved into macrophotography of bees,because of waiting for them to land where your set up...this sounds like a neat trick. |
I always use the same flower from the group I'm finding bees. This is to blend with the other flowers for back ground.
Bees tend to stay with the same flower when feeding.
The wire I use is a clothes hanger type of wire, easy to bend, and easy to bend below the FOV of the lens till its very end.
You dont want to see the wire
And never tell your secret! _________________ Digital: Canon 40d & 5DmkII, Film: Hasselblad 203fe/Zeiss 80/2.8 cfe
Adapters for EOS: Cy; M42; Zenit39; Exakta; LeicaR; OlympusOM; PK; Nikon; Rollei35; Retina; Adaptal; P-6 |
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Boomer Depp
Joined: 08 Oct 2009 Posts: 552 Location: Kingston,Washighton
Expire: 2011-12-04
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Boomer Depp wrote:
Thanks....I'll do that....
Save me getting dizzy chasing them around the Bee Balm....
_________________ Trust that little voice in your head that says "Wouldn't it be interesting if...." And then do it. |
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Bruce
Joined: 15 Jan 2008 Posts: 842 Location: Boston, Ma USA
Expire: 2014-11-22
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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Bruce wrote:
Just set your camera to burst mode, and let your little machine gun fire away.
my 40D gets 6.5 frames per second
in addition, not only does the prefocused flower on a wire save you time in chasing and focusing, it allows you to work on your shutter speeds and your background.
I like to shoot my camera level to the ground over the top of a low lying cluster of blooms with plenty of bees. This way I can get plenty of bokeh flowers in my backgrounds and enough light to get a decent shutter speed.
Pointing your camera into a bush/shrub of roses is likely to darken your frame and slow your shutter.
Shooting over the top, as a profile, one can get plenty of light for faster shutters, more background flower, and maintain great stop action for bee wings.
I get great looking stop action with a little motion blur at aprox. 230 shutter. A completely "frozen in action" wing might look a little phony esp if the wings are too close to thier body. I find a little motion makes for a greater IQ. _________________ Digital: Canon 40d & 5DmkII, Film: Hasselblad 203fe/Zeiss 80/2.8 cfe
Adapters for EOS: Cy; M42; Zenit39; Exakta; LeicaR; OlympusOM; PK; Nikon; Rollei35; Retina; Adaptal; P-6 |
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mo
Joined: 27 Aug 2009 Posts: 8979 Location: Australia
Expire: 2016-07-30
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:26 am Post subject: |
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mo wrote:
Some great tips and tricks!!
Quote: |
Mosquitoes are a good subject for macro, and if they move you don't feel guilty about giving them a little slap so they stay still. Unfortunately the last mosquitoe I slapped was kind of crushed as a result |
I gather it was not a love tap? _________________ Moira, Moderator
Fuji XE-1,Pentax K-01,Panasonic G1,Panasonic G5,Pentax MX
Ricoh Singlex TLS,KR-5,KR-5Super,XR-10
Lenses
Auto Rikenon's 55/1.4, 1.8, 2.8... 50/1.7 Takumar 2/58 Preset Takumar 2.8/105 Auto Takumar 2.2/55, 3.5/35 Super Takumar 1.8/55...Macro Takumar F4/50... CZJ Biotar ALU M42 2/58 CZJ Tessar ALU M42 2.8/50
CZJ DDR Flektogon Zebra M42 2.8/35 CZJ Pancolar M42 2/50 CZJ Pancolar Exakta 2/50
Auto Mamiya/Sekor 1.8/55 ...Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2.8/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 200/3.5 Tamron SP500/8 Tamron SP350/5.6 Tamron SP90/2.5
Primoplan 1.9/58 Primagon 4.5/35 Telemegor 5.5/150 Angenieux 3.5/28 Angenieux 3,5/135 Y 2
Canon FL 58/1.2,Canon FL85/1.8,Canon FL 100/3.5,Canon SSC 2.8/100 ,Konica AR 100/2.8, Nikkor P 105/2.5
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Boomer Depp
Joined: 08 Oct 2009 Posts: 552 Location: Kingston,Washighton
Expire: 2011-12-04
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:54 am Post subject: |
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Boomer Depp wrote:
Bruce wrote: |
Just set your camera to burst mode, and let your little machine gun fire away.
my 40D gets 6.5 frames per second
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Yeah,I've tried that...but still seems like they either move just out of the focus range I just set,or turn there rear to me.....
Over the years I just used the macro and close up lenses for flower photography...
It wasn't til last summer that I finally gave bees a try....Probably the one thing I've become aware of is it takes a bit of patience and serious dedication.
So this year,since I'm retired now,I will be dedicating much more time when I do break out the rail and tripod for macro-photography or try your wire trick...
or...if all else fails,I'll just capture some and superglue them in the proper stance on a blooming flower.
Some not so great captures from the few times I chased bees last summer....
_________________ Trust that little voice in your head that says "Wouldn't it be interesting if...." And then do it. |
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patrickh
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 Posts: 8551 Location: Oregon
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:34 am Post subject: |
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patrickh wrote:
El nikkor 80/5.6 on bellows plus tripod and patience:
patrickh _________________ DSLR: Nikon D300 Nikon D200 Nex 5N
MF Zooms: Kiron 28-85/3.5, 28-105/3.2, 75-150/3.5, Nikkor 50-135/3.5 AIS // MF Primes: Nikkor 20/4 AI, 24/2 AI, 28/2 AI, 28/2.8 AIS, 28/3.5 AI, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 AIS, 35/2.8 PC, 45/2.8 P, 50/1.4 AIS, 50/1.8 AIS, 50/2 AI, 55/2.8 AIS micro, 55/3.5 AI micro, 85/2 AI, 100/2,8 E, 105/1,8 AIS, 105/2,5 AIS, 135/2 AIS, 135/2.8 AIS, 200/4 AI, 200/4 AIS micro, 300/4.5 AI, 300/4.5 AI ED, Arsat 50/1.4, Kiron 28/2, Vivitar 28/2.5, Panagor 135/2.8, Tamron 28/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5 macro, Vivitar 90/2.5 macro (Tokina) Voigtlander 90/3.5 Vivitar 105/2.5 macro (Kiron) Kaleinar 100/2.8 AI Tamron 135/2.5, Vivitar 135/2.8CF, 200/3.5, Tokina 400/5,6
M42: Vivitar 28/2.5, Tamron 28/2.5, Formula5 28/2.8, Mamiya 28/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Flektogon 35/2.4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Takumar 35/3.5, Curtagon 35/4, Takumar 50/1.4, Volna-6 50/2.8 macro, Mamiya 50/1.4, CZJ Pancolar 50/1,8, Oreston 50/1.8, Takumar 50/2, Industar 50/3.5, Sears 55/1.4, Helios 58/2, Jupiter 85/2, Helios 85/1.5, Takumar 105/2.8, Steinheil macro 105/4.5, Tamron 135/2.5, Jupiter 135/4, CZ 135/4, Steinheil Culminar 135/4,5, Jupiter 135/3.5, Takumar 135/3.5, Tair 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, CZ 135/2.8, Taika 135/3.5, Takumar 150/4, Jupiter 200/4, Takumar 200/4
Exakta: Topcon 100/2.8(M42), 35/2.8, 58/1.8, 135/2.8, 135/2.8 (M42), Kyoei Acall 135/3.5
C/Y: Yashica 28/2.8, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, Zeiss Planar 50/1.4, Distagon 25/2.8
Hexanon: 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 40/1.8, 50/1.7, 52/1.8, 135/3.2, 135/3.5, 35-70/3.5, 200/3.5
P6 : Mir 38 65/3.5, Biometar 80/2.8, Kaleinar 150/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Minolta SR: 28/2.8, 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 45/2, 50/2, 58/1.4, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, 200/3.5
RF: Industar 53/2.8, Jupiter 8 50/2
Enlarg: Rodagon 50/5,6, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, Vario 44-52/4, 150/5.6 180/5.6 El Nikkor 50/2,8,63/2.8,75/4, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, 135/5.6 Schneider 60/5.6, 80/5.6, 80/4S,100/5.6S,105/5.6,135/5.6, 135/5.6S, 150/5.6S, Leica 95/4 |
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Boomer Depp
Joined: 08 Oct 2009 Posts: 552 Location: Kingston,Washighton
Expire: 2011-12-04
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:48 am Post subject: |
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Boomer Depp wrote:
I need to be that patient....but probably with tubes for now...thought about getting some bellows last year and giving it a go....but after my first couple tries,figured I needed some practice just trying to get a decent pic of a bee...
On my first couple of forays of getting all set up last summer I would say____it and start chasing bees with camera in hand.....
So after that if a bee came in the neighborhood of my lens when I was doing some flower shoots,I'd try and get a shot...and the little buggers would invariably move,usually to the other side of the plant on another bud....
Thought above rolling in the clover and then smearing my body with Honey Suckle or Hollyhocks to attract them
....at any rate,I'll give it another go this summer at a leisurely pace and try not to take the camera off the tripod and chase bees. _________________ Trust that little voice in your head that says "Wouldn't it be interesting if...." And then do it. |
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xjjohnno
Joined: 07 Apr 2009 Posts: 1270 Location: Melbourne Australia
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:45 am Post subject: |
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xjjohnno wrote:
Mofo it was a little love tap. |
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Mal1905
Joined: 30 Oct 2008 Posts: 1705 Location: Dublin, Ireland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Mal1905 wrote:
I'm fortunate to have Dublin's Botanic Garden near my home, and it has huge greenhouses with amazing varieties of flowers and plants.
This little chap/chapette played ball with me while I merrily snapped away...
S-M-C Macro-Takumar 4/50 on EOS 5D, handheld, Metz 58-AF1 flash full-on
_________________
Canon EOS 5D / EOS 40D
Carl Zeiss Jena: Flektogon 2.8/20, 2.4/35, 2.8/35, Pancolar 2/50, MC 1.8/50, MC 1.8/80, Triotar 4/135, Tessar 2.8/50, S 4/135 1Q, S 3.5/135, Sonnar 3.5/135 MC, 2.8/180, Biotar 2/5,8cm, 2/58, 1.5/75
Carl Zeiss: Distagon 2/28 T*, 1.4/35 T*, Ultron 1.8/50, Tessar 2.8/50, Planar 1.4/50 T* MM, 1.7/50 T* MM, 1.4/85 T* AEG, Sonnar 2.8/135 T*
Asahi Optical Co.: Super-Multi-Coated Takumar 4.5/20, 3.5/24, 3.5/28, 2/35, 3.5/35, 1.4/50, 1.8/55, 1.8/85, 2.8/105, 2.8/120, 2.5/135 I & II, 3.5/135, 4/150, 4/200, 4/300, 5.6/400, 4/45-125, 4.5/85-210, Super-Takumar 4.5/20, 3.5/24, 3.5/28, 2/35, 3.5/35, 1.4/50, 1.8/55, 2/55, 2.8/105, 3.5/135, 4/150, 4/200, 4.5/70-150, Fish-Eye-Takumar 4/17, Macro-Takumar 4/50, Super-Macro Takumar 4/50, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-Takumar 4/50, 4/100, Bellows-Takumar 4/100, Asahi-Kogaku Takumar 3.5/50, 2.4/58, 3.5/100, Asahi-Kogaku Tele-Takumar 3.5/135, Auto-Takumar 2.3/35, 3.5/35, 1.8/55, 1.8/55 (Zebra), 2/55, 2.2/55, 1.8/85, 2.8/105, 3.5/135, Takumar 4/35, 2.2/55, 2/58, 2.8/105, 3.5/135, 3.5/200, 5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 5.6/200, 6.3/300, SMC Takumar 1.4/50, 1.8/55, 2/55, SMC-M 1.4/50, 1.7/50, 2/50
Tomioka: Tominon 2/5cm, Auto-Chinon 3.5/21, 1.4/55, Auto-Yashinon DS-M 1.2/55 |
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
Wow, that's crisp. _________________ Regards,
Woodrim |
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justtorchit
Joined: 12 Oct 2009 Posts: 269 Location: St. Louis, MO
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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justtorchit wrote:
These are some really great ideas. I have been photographing insects for a few years now and honestly never thought much about attempting to lure the bees to me via these methods. Now I have some things to try, hurry up spring! Thanks for the hints guys! _________________ David
www.davidkovaluk.com - personal website
www.instagram.com/davidkovaluk
http://makingnottaking.blogspot.com/ - photoblog |
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
Just a word of advice, guys, don't spill any Pepsi on your shirt or get any gooey sweets where you don't want it. Been there. It used to be when I dribbled, my shoes would get wet; today for some reason it ends up on my shirt. _________________ Regards,
Woodrim |
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