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Looking for macro lens to use for scanning 35mm negatives
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The photos posted above are thumbnails and it's pretty hard to determine what is pictured.



Nikkormat FTN here with PB bellows unit and slide/film copier attachment. Lens is Micro Nikkor P 55mm f3.5



Bellows unit again, this time with 50mm f2 nikkor H on BR-2 reversing ring on chrome F2.


-D.S.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="vanylapep"]
RokkorDoctor wrote:

I would like to upgrade to a real macro lens. The Nikkor Printing seems nice but very expensive, how far away is the Vivitar 55mm f2.5 macro from it in terms of result? It is at 10% of the price lol.


I strongly would recommend not to spend too much money right now. For your purposes - especially if you intend to copy/digitalize some color negatives which usually have limited resolution - a (nowadays) pretty cheap setup is perfectly suited:

1) digital mirrorless camera (e. g. full frame with 24 MP)
2) adapter (e. g. Sony E to Canon FD)
3) bellows (preferably the more sophisticated ones with dual rails)
4) 50mm or 55mm macro lens (e. g. Canon FD 3.5/50mm)
5) slide copier

You can get the whole "bellows & slide copier" unit for around CHF/USD/EUR 100.--.
Good 50mm macro lenses ususally go for around USD/CHF/EUR 50.-- (e. g. Canon FD 3.5/50mm, Nikkor 3.5/55mm, Minolta MCor MD 3.5/50mm, ... you name it). In other words: you can get a full working equipment for less than EUR/CHF/USD 200.--.

If you later on should realize that you need a better lens, you easily can upgrade.

S


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bear in mind that 35mm still film and 35mm Academy projection film, while using the same raw stock size, have very different frame sizes.

35mm stills film has a 24mmx35mm frame size, fed horizontally, which is more or less identical to the sensor size on your "Full Frame" a7. Academy 35 has a frame size of 16mmx22mm, significantly smaller, and fed vertically, to keep the aspect ratio wider and to leave room for the audio track.

A 1:1 lens is one in which at max magnification (typically with the helical fully extended), the size of the magnified image corresponds exactly to a 35mm cell, or, in this case, your sensor. Since the Academy frame is smaller, if your goal is to have the scanned image reach the edges of your digital frame, leaving out audio track/matting/possibly sprocket holes, you'll need to go past 1:1, which will require a bellows, tubes, or another means to adjust magnification. This is doubly true if you are doing smaller formats like 16mm or 8mm. There are some dedicated macro lenses these days that go to 2:1 or beyond, on a helical, but they'll be more expensive than most of the setups mentioned so far in this thread.

The other side of this is that as mentioned, most high speed motion picture films have a lot of grain, so you quickly reach a point of diminishing returns when it comes to overall resolution, so even cropping down from 1:1 images of Academy 35 cells may still give you results of similar quality. For this same reason, chasing a super expensive macro lens for film scanning can be a fools errand as well, as extra sharp images of grain edges may not necessarily result in a significantly or even noticeably improved end product. Asan added bonus, if you retain the optical audio data, you may be able to use something like AEO-light (https://usc-imi.github.io/aeo-light/) to reconstruct audio if you are doing a lot of automated motion picture capturing.

On very fine grained film, particularly low speed black and white slides, you might see the most benefit in terms of raw detail gained, but for color films, even Ektachrome 100 maxes out at like 35lp/mm in lab conditions, so for 1:1 color slides, even a venerable micro Nikkor 55 that purportedly gets up to 200lp/mm should be able to handle it pretty easily.

vanylapep wrote:
RokkorDoctor wrote:

I have no idea how familiar the OP is with a 1:1 copy setup, so something I would add is that 1:1 magnification, focusing can no longer be done by just moving the lens (at least not in a traditional setup).

At 1:1 magnification the changes in subject, lens, and camera positions that affect focus will also affect magnification, so it will require a bit of trial and error to get the setup adjusted such that both focus and magnification are spot-on. The saving grace is that the subject isn't in motion, so you have all the time in the world to get the setup just right... Wink


I am unfamiliar with 1:1 lens and 1:1 copy setup. I'm new to all this.

Do 1:1 lens have focus helicoid or are they fixed focus so you have to move the camera and lens?

I am currently using the Nikkor 105mm f/2.5 AIS with a macro adapter attached in the front. I would like to upgrade to a real macro lens. The Nikkor Printing seems nice but very expensive, how far away is the Vivitar 55mm f2.5 macro from it in terms of result? It is at 10% of the price lol.

FYI, I am planning to have a setup like one of these two types. The camera, lens and subject (the film) will be in fixed positons.




The size of an image inside a 35mm film:


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
vanylapep wrote:
I am unfamiliar with 1:1 lens and 1:1 copy setup. I'm new to all this.

Do 1:1 lens have focus helicoid or are they fixed focus so you have to move the camera and lens?


There are probably some exceptions, but in general:

- Macro lenses designed to be mounted directly on the camera have a focus mechanism (either the unit focus helicoid style, or internal focus cam/slot/zoom style).

- Macro Bellows lenses are designed for use on a bellows and/or copy stand, and do not have a focus helicoid.

You'll work out the focusing, just start playing around with it. For any copy work where magnification is important, you will almost certainly need to accurately control the subject-to-camera distance, hence a bellows or copy stand setup is very convenient for this.
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