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bawang
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 548
Location: Indiana, USA
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 Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:37 am Post subject: Leica M3 Dual Stroke |
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bawang wrote:
I am seeking advise from the collective expertise here.
I have been shooting a lot more film on the Zorki and Yashica Electro 35 lately and, I found one Leica M3 Dual Stroke, very early model s/n 74x xxx, on sale. Unfortunately it has an issue. Seller said it's a double stroke but it cannot do the second stroke after the first one. I guess it's stuck. The price is very reasonable that even if it is irreparable, I can always put it on sale as parts. Everything else regarding the camera looks between EX to BGN (KEH standard). I can't personally inspect it as this was posted locally elsewhere and being sold as-is.
So my question is, has anyone experience this or know what is causing this?
Thanks. |
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cooltouch
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 9096
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:46 am Post subject: |
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cooltouch wrote:
You might also try posting this question over at the Classic Camera Repair Forum:
http://www.kyphoto.com/cgi-bin/forum/discus.cgi
I'm sure they will tell you what I suspect -- that the camera is very much repairable.
Best,
Michael
_________________
Michael
My Gear List: http://michaelmcbroom.com/photo/gear.html
My Gallery: http://michaelmcbroom.com/gallery3/index.php/
My Flickr Page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/11308754@N08/albums
My Music: https://soundcloud.com/michaelmcbroom/albums
My Blog: http://michaelmcbroom.com/blogistan/ |
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scsambrook
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 2167
Location: Glasgow Scotland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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scsambrook wrote:
Double-stroke M3s SEEM to have acquired a 'forum reputation' for having wind-on problems that need costly repairs, but I can't ever remember that being common back in the 60s and 70s. You really need to talk to a competent technician - maybe Leica USA might have an opinion ("Yessir, needs full overhaul at $500" most likely).
My feeling is that a mechanical problem is relatively easy to fix but it could still be hundreds of dollars. Equally - or even more - important is to make sure there are NO viewfinder/rangefinder problems because they can be very, very costly to fix and sometimes impossible.
Hope I'm not depressing you - I'm a Leica fan but that M3 is 50+ years old and you haven't seen it.
_________________
Stephen
Equipment: Pentax DSLR for casual shooting, Lumix G1 and Fuji XE-1 for playing with old lenses, and Leica M8 because I still like the optical rangefinder system. |
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
Probably a bad repair before. The leica's repairman are expensives but they use a original parts to repair.
The problem perhaps is in the shutter. The quality of the M3 (may be the best quality M cam) deserves a very good repair service. Only one for all the items. Close the cam and use it for another 50 years or so. The expensives time to time services help too.
Put the money in the M3. Not wrong in any way.
Regards, Rino.
_________________
Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
If yo have money to buy expensive stuff take it and pay high cost repair.
If don't have enough buy something else same than cars I can't afford repair costs for a top car, but I can afford a medium level car.
So many good, trustworthy and low priced camera out there. My conclusion is from several Leica purchases, cheap Leica is not Leica. I won't buy again till when I have enough money to afford expensive Leica stuff.
_________________
-------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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bawang
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 548
Location: Indiana, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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bawang wrote:
Agreed Attila.
But this comes in at a very reasonable price that if it does not work, I can just put it up for sale as parts if and when I receive it. However, I don't have plans to take this route. I am hoping that it is in working condition and when I have more $$$, I can send it for CLA. I have been watching the prices of these M3 and they are pretty consistent with the price and the trend is moving upwards. This is partly caused by you and others here who have shown beautiful pictures with film (not just manual focus on DLSRs). My TLR and Electro RF have produced pics that even my family is convinced is much better than my DSLRs (20D and 500D).
Based on some opinions, this M3 DS may have been converted to single stroke. At its current winding state, between first and second stroke, the seam of the curtains on double stroke should be seen half way through the frame but on this it's looks like it has been fully cranked as if it's a single stroke. See picture below.
I however see the seam not completely hidden since I assume after complete winding, the seam cannot be seen at all like my Zorki-4. Could that be the issue?
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
| bawang wrote: |
Agreed Attila.
But this comes in at a very reasonable price that if it does not work, I can just put it up for sale as parts if and when I receive it. However, I don't have plans to take this route. I am hoping that it is in working condition and when I have more $$$, I can send it for CLA. I have been watching the prices of these M3 and they are pretty consistent with the price and the trend is moving upwards. This is partly caused by you and others here who have shown beautiful pictures with film (not just manual focus on DLSRs). My TLR and Electro RF have produced pics that even my family is convinced is much better than my DSLRs (20D and 500D).
Based on some opinions, this M3 DS may have been converted to single stroke. At its current winding state, between first and second stroke, the seam of the curtains on double stroke should be seen half way through the frame but on this it's looks like it has been fully cranked as if it's a single stroke. See picture below.
I however see the seam not completely hidden since I assume after complete winding, the seam cannot be seen at all like my Zorki-4. Could that be the issue?
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Let's try I love those peoples who save life of any camera, lenses.
_________________
-------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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bawang
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 548
Location: Indiana, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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bawang wrote:
Does that mean I am loved too? Well, I love you guys too!!!  |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
| bawang wrote: |
| Does that mean I am loved too? Well, I love you guys too!!! |
 yes.
_________________
-------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
Look at the black point at the front of the mount. Are there the letter "L", "R" or not any letter?
This is important to know the kind of repair that was done, if one. But the curtain is seeing so good to be so old.
Rino.
_________________
Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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bawang
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 548
Location: Indiana, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:01 am Post subject: |
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bawang wrote:
I couldn't see if there is any letters L or R from the pictures that were sent to me. Once I get it God Willing, I will post. |
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peterm1
Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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peterm1 wrote:
I have certainly previously bought a faulty camera that was otherwise (a) highly desirable / rare and (b) in great cosmetic condition. Mainly, because you know you may be hard pressed to find another in the condition. Its always a crap shoot unless you can find in advance what the repair costs might be. If you have a competent repair technician in your locale, can you acquire the camera "on approval" on the basis that you will get a repair quote before committing finally. This is what I would try first with the seller. If so it would lay to rest any doubts. I have a DS M3 and touch wood no problems of this sort to date. But I have recently read one other post where someone has said they have seen a camera with the issue - who knows, maybe its the same camera.
I can say that there is something about the DS I like - maybe its the smoothness of the stroke and the novelty factor plus the fact that this is a certified classic camera of the highest order.
We have a TV program in Australia called "The New Inventors" - people come on the show to display their inventions, that sort of thing. In pride of place in the background artwork (along with a few other invention icons from history ) behind the judging panel - is an M3 double stroke! Its that kind fo camera.
_________________
PeterM |
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:20 am Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
| peterm1 wrote: |
I can say that there is something about the DS I like - maybe its the smoothness of the stroke and the novelty factor plus the fact that this is a certified classic camera of the highest order.
We have a TV program in Australia called "The New Inventors" - people come on the show to display their inventions, that sort of thing. In pride of place in the background artwork (along with a few other invention icons from history ) behind the judging panel - is an M3 double stroke! Its that kind fo camera. |
Hi PeterM
You are talking about the LEICA M3 DS, man. Not surpriced if you discover that have a real gem of all the times. One of the best cameras of all (Leica M3, Nikon F, Eos 1 and a few more).
The M3 was used in antartic, in Ecuador, not need batery, the finder is bright, the lenses are superb plus, take a pic with it : Real pleasure. You will not forget this cam and "her" lenses.
Regards, Rino.
_________________
Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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bawang
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 548
Location: Indiana, USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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bawang wrote:
Got the camera and lens.
@Rino, I see the letter 'L' on the black dot on the mount. What does that means?
The shutter is indeed stucked. And the viewfinder is dark except for the 50mm brightline and 'focusing' patch. I heard this can be a really big issue, as I have read elsewhere to stay away from M3 with VF/RF issue as it's very expensive to repair. Yikes.
It looks like my IIIf RD ST sn/81x xxx will be on the market to pay for the repair. Anyone interested?  It's in wonderful shape. Shutter working fine, fast and slow speed. The only significant cosmetic flaw would be the two scratches on the bottom plate and cracking leatherette at two spots. The latest roll that I finished last week is still at the lab. I will put a post on the classified soon as I have a few other things to sell. How much do you think I should ask for this?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/khidhir/sets/72157622568665702/
Anyway, along with the M3, I also received the Summaron 3.5/35 and Summicron 2/50 which I am so eager to try. I will make contact with the Youxin Ye in the US soon and see if I can send it to him for repair. |
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F16SUNSHINE
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 5486
Location: Left Coast
Expire: 2011-11-18
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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F16SUNSHINE wrote:
Hmmmm
Interesting to see how this goes.
I've started to look at M3's not because I particularly want one.
Rather because I do want a Summicron dual range.
Everything I have read is that lens matches best to an M3.
Is the cron you received a Rigid or Collapsable ?
Both those lenses are great. I remember a nice atmospheric portrait in a cafe that Stephen posted with that 35. I think you will be quite happy when all the issues are sorted out.
_________________
Moderator |
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bawang
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 548
Location: Indiana, USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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bawang wrote:
Thanks Andy. The Cron is Collapsible. I wish it's the DR too. I shoot the IIIf with another LTM Coll. 2/50 Cron and the rendering appeals to me. It soft wide open, but gets to be really sharp by 8.
I hope I will manage to get this repaired. |
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
HI
1- "L" means camera never open before. (all inside it, is Leica original).
2- Summicron collapsible is a different lens than the rigid (DR or not) ones.
3- The DR is better for the M3 (the M2 and M4 have different viewfinder relation). The only difference with the "classic" is the mechanism of focus with the eyes. Both are the same schame with 7 elements. The next to come in 1969 was the "minolta" summicron with 6 elements and more contrast.
Rino.
_________________
Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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bawang
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 548
Location: Indiana, USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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bawang wrote:
Youxin has shipped the revived M3 back. I will update forum when I get it and managed to give it some workout. In the mean time, I have listed a few items on the 'bay to help pay for the repair with cost that is beyond what I expected to spend on the M3. However, from what I have seen, Youxin charges are among the lowest.
I have posted links to the items on Marketplace here. You can help by resuscitating my account to pay for the cost to revive the M3 here
http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic,p,185426.html#185426 |
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