Just bought bellows - Lens additions?

kawasakiguy37 · Joined: 13 Jul 2010 Posts: 132

I just bought some simple bellows in Nikon mount (the rear) that come with a spiratone 75mm flat field macro. This lense should give me at least 2:1 or 4:1 magnification. What other options do I have for the end of these bellows? Is there anyway to convert them (they are a simple two rail design, no shift/tilt) to have tilt / shift features? Would a medium or large format lens be a good candidate to slap on the end?

Im looking for maximum magnification and macro ability here, or something with really good working distance.

lulalake · Expire: 2011-11-18

kawasakiguy37 · Joined: 13 Jul 2010 Posts: 132

I believe my bellows go out to about 150mm. Does the focal length of the lense affect the magnification at a given extension?

RioRico · Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:55 am Post subject: Bellowing, part I

patrickh · Expire: 2011-11-18

I find the best value is definitely in the enlarging lenses. Really fine qulaity can be obtained for well under $100 - look for el-nikkor, Schneider componon - S and rodenstock rodagon. They come typically from 50 - 150mm. I have a couple of active threads with samples from a few of these lenses

patrickh

kawasakiguy37 · Joined: 13 Jul 2010 Posts: 132

So it doesnt matter how close the lense I mount on the bellows can focus? (as in it wont matter if I stick a macro or normal lens?)

RioRico · Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:50 am Post subject: Bellowing, part II

Enlarger lenses (EL's) are great for tube/bellows macro work -- cheap, light, cheap, sharp, cheap. Did I mention that they're cheap? But they're also limited by the amount of extension you're comfortable with. I use various EL glass in the 50-75-90-110-140mm range, all quality stuff that mostly cost less than US$15 each. But like I said, that Ilex 140 pushes the limit.

You can also use standard lenses on bellows. An M42 135mm Takumar on the bellows easily reaches 1:1 without additional tubes. Essentially, the lens body IS the supplemental tube. Back in the day, with my 35mm half-frame Olympus Pen-FT SLR, I'd mount a 400mm tele on bellows and tubes, supported by a shoulder stock, to shoot closeups of rattlesnakes in the wild from a safe distance. Any tele on extensions gives plenty of working range.

Some lenses work fine mounted directly; others perform better when reversed. A cheap mount-reversal ring lets you use lenses FROM ANY MAKER. But your working range is small, approaching a lens' register distance. For most SLR lenses, that's close to 50mm. Long-tube type teles don't reverse well, as they have no optics at their base. Large- and medium-format lenses tend to be heavy, but they would have greater working range when reversed. I haven't tried that yet. Hmmm, maybe if I pulled the 120mm Zeiss lens and shutter from that old Ikonta 6x9 folder...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

I also haven't tried high-magnification stacked lenses mounted onto extensions. And I really haven't done much with high magnifications. The problem: light, or lack thereof. Light loss is given by the formula: Effective Aperture = Nominal Aperture * (Magnification + 1)

So any lens at 1:1 with its aperture ring set to a nominal value of f/8, will have an effective aperture of 8 * (1+1) = f/16. At 2:1, it's (8 * (2+1) = f/24. If I reached 7:1, it's f/64 -- hey, we're in Ansel Adams territory! Light-wise, anyway. That's six full f-stops down from f/8. Drop the shutter speed from 1/125 to 1/2 second, eh?

Needless to say, focus and illumination are difficult at great magnification, especially with bellows and tubes. High magnification is usually achieved by stacking lenses, reversing a secondary onto a primary with a cheap thread-reversal ring. Magnification is the ratio of primary to secondary; a 35mm secondary reverse-stacked onto a 105mm primary gives 105/35 = 3:1, with a 4 f-stop loss of light. Mounting a stacked pair on bellows should make focusing a bit easier, however.

Search around, and you'll find lots of material about bellows work. Have fun!

RioRico · Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:10 am Post subject:

kawasakiguy37 · Joined: 13 Jul 2010 Posts: 132

Perhaps I will just stick tothe spiratone 75mm for now and try some of my nikkor AI-S lenses on the bellows and see how I like them. Should give me enough combinations between working distance / magnification to get what I want

Krisgage · Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 681 Location: Singapore

As for me, I put enlarger lens, LF brass lens, LF lens and folding camera lens. There is alot to play with bellows. Have fun discovering ! Very Happy

kawasakiguy37 · Joined: 13 Jul 2010 Posts: 132

Would it be possible to mount an old Perspective control lens? For macro work I eventually want to be able to control the plane / depth of field.

Arninetyes · Expire: 2013-03-26

I would think the answer would be 'yes', but remember that the bellows mount itself, even fully collapsed, will be part of the extension. It will affect how close you must be in order to focus.

I never thought about using a PC lens on my bellows, because it already has limited tilt/shift. It would be an interesting experiment, especially figuring out the best way to combine the tilt/shift of the bellows with the shift (and tilt, if it has it) of the PC lens.

Hmmm. I may have to start looking for an affordable PC lens.

kawasakiguy37 · Joined: 13 Jul 2010 Posts: 132

I think Im just going to use these bellows for now and pickup some T/S compatible bellows later, seems to be my best option! Once I do that might as well get a LF lense too for the larger image circle!!

PaulC · Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Posts: 2318

How do you mount these odd lenses on the bellows? I've got a set that came with an M42 ring. I'd love to mount interesting oddball stuff on the end of it but I'm not sure how to fix it in place (I'm not very practical that way).

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

PaulC · Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Posts: 2318

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

gcrimmins · Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 146 Location: Moscow, Idaho, USA

I have an APO Rodagon-D enlarging lens that works extremely well on bellows. It's either 70mm of 75mm, I can never remember which.

RioRico · Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:42 am Post subject:

AhamB · Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 733 Location: Germany

Orlie · Joined: 07 Dec 2009 Posts: 4 Location: Seattle, WA

I use enlarging lenses and find they are very sharp and very easy to get and very inexpensive.

I look for lenses that have a M39 mount and six elements. As previously mentioned a few of the big names for quality enlarging lenses are Nikon, Schneider and Fuji. Note, that they lens companies also have less expensive 4 element lenses. Below is a listing of lenses that I have used and enjoy.

https://sites.google.com/site/inexpensivemacrophotography/6-enlarging-lenses.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Hey Kawasakiguy -- Couple of q's / comments:

First off, have you tried out that Spiratone lens yet? Chances are it's pretty nice, and may be all you need for now. How about your other AIs lenses?

About perspective-control bellows, I know of only two: the Nikon PB-4 and the Spiratone Bellows Master, which apparently was made by Hama:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/edgehill/4068953692/

There may be others, but of the above two the Spiratone is far more useful for true Scheimphflug movements. The Nikon PB-4 usually goes for a pretty good chunk of change on eBay, and the Spiratone Bellows Master, when it appears on eBay, which isn't very often, also goes for a lot of $$$.

Also, as you probably know you can get great magnification by just reversing wide angle lenses. Imagine what it would be like with a reversed lens mounted to a set of bellows.

Finally, I have found that a very handy accessory to have when doing high-magnification photography is a macro focusing stage that allows both forward-rear and side-to-side adjustments. Some bellows allow forward-rear adjustments of both the camera and lens end after mounting to a tripod, but I don't know of any that allow side-to-side. And trying to reposition your tripod at very high magnifications can be a real PITA. So this is an accessory you might want to consider. I bought one of these over three weeks ago, and it still hasn't arrived yet. Must be on the slow boat from China.

Click here to see on Ebay

kawasakiguy37 · Joined: 13 Jul 2010 Posts: 132

That focusing stage looks real nice, I wonder how it would work for video?

Tell me what you think when it arrives, it looks really useful