Is this Tamron Adaptall SP 500 f8 malfunctioning?

rafa1981 · Joined: 15 Jul 2010 Posts: 142

Hello.

Recently I sold this lens, and the buyer claims that it is malfunctioning, one of the proof that he sent me is this.

http://vimeo.com/36887574

Is this lens really malfunctioning? or what we are seeing here is camera shaking due to the fact that the focus ring is being turned.

The lens is mounted on an APS camera, so the focal distance would be a 750mm equivalent.

From one side the buyer has no reason to lie, but taking a look at that I'm not really sure whether he is right or wrong. On the last test it could have been better moving the figures instead of the lens.

Pancolart · Expire: 2013-11-18

Seems to me lens is normal but he doesn't try to keep it in focus. I like your idea of adding a poll Smile

!

marty · Joined: 09 Apr 2009 Posts: 767 Location: Italy

The proof is not conclusive to me, though my feeling here is camera shake. I own that lens and is pain to focus correctly when taking stills, let alone shooting video probably hand held. The shallow dof doesn't help either. The guy is probably in "bona fide" , you might suggest him trying to snap some stills with a tripod.

Cheers, M.

Himself · Expire: 2013-05-30

rafa1981 · Joined: 15 Jul 2010 Posts: 142

I forgot to say it, they are done with a tripod.

If those were hand-held the guy would have rock steady hands! Remember that the FOV is the one of a 750mm lens on FF, no way to do a video with that hand-holding.

My feeling is that that neither the tripod nor the lens itself (it's a light lens for the focal) are dampening the vibrations. It can be also a head problem.

BTW, I started the poll just to make him understand that it is not weird what I'm thinking, something people gets angry when you say them that they can be doing a mistake. I will give more details about how the problem solves.

For now I would like to know which are the people's thoughts, 500 f8 mirror users over APS-C preferred.

Thanks to all!

ForenSeil · Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.

With Tair 3s 300mm + 2x converter on APSC I get a much sharper video under good light. But youre right, it's maybe only a problem of the setup or a general problem with a focusing ring which causes vibration etc. (I don't know this lens). Anyway I'm about 70% sure that it's a malfunction Wink

marty · Joined: 09 Apr 2009 Posts: 767 Location: Italy

rafa1981 · Joined: 15 Jul 2010 Posts: 142

mo · Expire: 2016-07-30

I own both Tamron SP500/8 lenses and have never used them for video.I know it takes a while to get used to using this lens ,how long has the buyer had it ?
I would like to see some still images taken by it,as that was what it was made for after all.

Xpres · Expire: 2014-10-28

I'd be very surprised if anyone managed to get very sharp looking video from this sort of set up. Getting good stills needs a very sturdy tripod set up and cable release etc... and still needs high shutter speeds. I used the 500 for a bit with an EP2 which worked OK, but if you pixel peep I needed at least 1/1000 even with the tripod. I think video is a non starter if you want it that sharp.
Your buyer needs to take some stills as suggested... but really, as a good seller, you need to take the lens back if he's not happy, although at his expense as there's probably nothing wrong with it....

Arkku · Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1416 Location: Helsinki, Finland

Hard to say with only this video as evidence. In many cases it seems to me that he misses focus; momentarily the image looks better focused than when he actually takes the picture. The focusing “beyond infinity” is normal for this lens. As someone who owns this lens, my guess is that the lens is fine but the overall setup (including tripod + focus) isn't… This lens is particularly problematic on a tripod because of the light weight of the lens; usually lenses with this focal length are also so massive that they prevent the tripod from shaking by sheer weight. I've actually had better success using this handheld.

However, it is still possible that the lens is broken in addition to the other problems; I can't tell from the video.

rafa1981 · Joined: 15 Jul 2010 Posts: 142

hoanpham · Expire: 2015-01-18

Dont you have any photos taken with your lens before you sell it?

rafa1981 · Joined: 15 Jul 2010 Posts: 142

It came with an Olympus lot and I wasn't interested on it beforehand, I seldom shoot above 50mm, so I resold it.

Before I checked that nothing was wrong from the outside, I mounted it on my 5d, everything looked correct from the viewfinder, I did a pair of shots hand-held in a cloudy day and I didn't see anything wrong, but of course they weren't sharp due to hand-shaking, or at least that was what I thought. After that it was stored for two days until the guy bought it.

That was my mistake, that now I can't claim anything. From the outside it did look flawless, so I was satisfied with those shaked shots.

The Olympus equipment seller said that all the equipment was functional and I relied on his word. As a matter of fact all the equipment was functional, the 75-150, 50 f1.8, 35 f2 and even the camera and the winder. So I was overconfident and I did a clear mistake here.

But as I said there are more details that I don't wanna reveal now, favorable to the buyer and favorable for me.

For now what do you think of the proof?

rafa1981 · Joined: 15 Jul 2010 Posts: 142

ManualFocus-G · Expire: 2014-11-24

This lens is very hard to keep still, even on a tripod with cable release...the mirror slap is enough to knock it! Also, which tripod mount is the user screwing onto the tripod? I found it almost impossible to get a steady shot on APS-C when using the lens mount and had to resort to using the camera mount instead. Even then it is difficult to get sharp shots unless using a high shutter speed. Perhaps that is the next test?

rafa1981 · Joined: 15 Jul 2010 Posts: 142

mo · Expire: 2016-07-30

Can he take some handheld shots? Those tripod images are terrible...I never use a tripod with my Mirror.This is the Tamron 55BB

This is at infinity handheld...some heat haze and camera shake,I don't use infinity much when using this lense
#1

#2

This is the range I like for the Tamron close up to mid distance.These are not the best samples but I hope it can show something from a lens that I consider is working properly.

#3

#4

#5

sammo · Joined: 04 Jan 2012 Posts: 223 Location: CH and SI

I haven't seen the video as I couldn't opet it, but the images look to me as they are blured because of shaking. I know from experience when shooting through 1200mm or even more (telescopes) the mouth/tripod has to be very heavy to compensate the vibrations caused by the mirror release...and I mean VEEERY heavy!

I would suggest the buyer to take a test photo not on a tripod, but to just put the camera on something more stable, as a table, window shelf or something similar where he can ge an object to focus at.

Arkku · Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1416 Location: Helsinki, Finland

hoanpham · Expire: 2015-01-18

I rather say user error. I use this lens with pentax bodies, IBIS activated, iso 1600-3200 hand held, with good results. DOF is very thin in all distances. Closer distance, near MfD, it is ok with 1/400 Ibis on, hand held. Near infinity you need 1/2000 or faster and keep the gear stable some how. Ibis may help a little bit, but i used to shot several frames each scene. Focus throw is little at longer distance and therefore very hard to use.

peterqd · Expire: 2014-01-04

What exactly does he complain about? Is it the difficulty of getting sharp focus or is it the jumpy image as he focusses? Both could be caused by mirror movement or some other fault inside the lens. I don't have this lens, but Mo's pictures look a lot better than at any focus setting in the video.

I think I'd be inclined to ask him to return it and pay for the return postage myself. If the lens is indeed faulty then you at least retain good feedback and you get a chance to inspect it properly and have it repaired if you want. If not, you have to take the risk of getting a better price if you sell it again.

rafa1981 · Joined: 15 Jul 2010 Posts: 142

I think that there is more than enough data to see the trend. I will tell the story.

When the lens arrived, the user said that it was impossible for him to get focus. He then said that the back element where the filters are placed was a bit loose and needed to be screwed from the outside (15 sec), and after that the lens improved.

When I cleaned it with a LensPen before sending I didn't notice anything weird in that part but I decided to trust him. I can do mistakes after all, maybe that part was loose, I remember that the attachable Skylight filter that was placed in there was hard to remove, so maybe I made something loose without realizing: my fault.

Then after that little inconvenience of the loose piece, he sent me the video linked on this thread claiming that it was still malfunctioning.

I omitted my thoughts about that this video wasn't conclusive for me and I decided to trust him and take responsibility. After all there was allegedly a loose part, why couldn't be two?

After saying that I wanted him to immediately stop trying to service the lens, because it can lead to a even bigger problem, I offered three options to him:

-A return covering myself the shipping back and forth, and letting him to keep an Hexanon 40 f1.8 that I sold him for 9€ to help with the shipping costs.
-To pay the servicing if he wanted to keep it.
-Considering that i thought that the malfunction was minor, I offered a refund of 50-60€ and letting him decide if he wants to try to fix it himself or with that money, but that money would have bought my fault exemption.

He said that he looked after one of these for so long and that he wanted to service it at my expense. In every moment I thought that if this lens was faulty it should be something very very minor, so I had a thought that if the service was charging little i would compensate him with an extra 20€ refund, for the caused by me inconveniences.

So the visits: the first technician was his habitual service center. The guy opened the lens and he said that it was complicated to continue disassembling, he decided to close the lens back again without charging. The technician said that until the point that he arrived he didn't see anything loose or weird. He also gave us the information that the cemented elements were right.

So I deduced that this technician had no clue about how to fix mirror lenses, and then I looked for a more skilled lab. At this point I reaffirmed to the buyer that I was covering everything, even if they charged something for examination. No need to say that I was covering shipping back and forth, letting him keep the Hexanon 40 for 9€ and a little fee for the inconveniences.

My thought here was that the fault was mirror decollimation and it just needed to be adjusted. Being the most important issues already discarded (cementation and mechanical).

And then is when the battle begins, I received a message saying that the second lab technician measured the lens in an optical bench as 100% flawless even without beginning a disassembly but:

The buyer said that he would prove the lens again in one or two days and then he would decide if he gives it me back at my expense. I answered that what was that prove necessary for if it has been benched an performing at 100%? I said that the new test was only valid to him for checking if the lens fulfills his expectations, and that no return at my expense was possible at this point and for that reason, because the lens was proved to be flawless, and it wasn't even proved that the lens was faulty before beginning the service visiting round.

The guy does video, and I think that he wanted it for filming. It was weird for me that a guy wanting to get through the pain of visit service shops for fixing a lens, suddenly has it fixed as he wanted, but then backs down and doesn't want it anymore. I obviously thought that the lens didn't meet his expectations. And looking at the video it seems perfectly logical for me to think like that.

He claimed that the first technician maybe fixed it without realizing, that his video (and the stills taken when recording) obviously show that the lens wasn't working properly, and that because he doesn't know which the problem was, is, or if it will appear again in the future, he wanted to return it at my expense or a guarantee. And the point is, a guarantee of what? no issue has been found. Should i guarantee a 30 year old lens? Even if I should, against which fault? We all know what we buy when we buy this kind of legacy staff.

My answer was that the prove presented was inconclusive, and that on that point for me it looked obvious that there is no technical problem, and maybe it never was, so I asked for a video on the same conditions than this one in the thread showing improvement, now that the lens is fully performing it should be easy. The answer was to get angry "you have no right to doubt from me", "I have not to prove anything anyways but...".

I offered him to keep it and I will pay back him 20€, covering the piece that allegedly was loose, those 20€ are a big percentile of an hypothetical future reparation.

Thanks to this thread, I also offered a return of both this lens and the Hexanon, shipping back and forth at his expense. It was seen as an insult (55€).

I opened this thread to find unbiased data of how the presented prove was, in anticipation of his future movements, because sooner or later he will start defamating me on the other forum.

Thanks for everything.

PS: BTW, is mandatory on this lens to be using one of the 4 provided filters? if the lens can't be used without we have one more source of problems.

hoanpham · Expire: 2015-01-18

Next time, you should take it back, no other options. Buyer that opens the lens will lose any return rights.
Test the item throughly, take a lot of photos regarding cosmetics. Buyer also need to cover the return shipping himself, as all other mailorder customers. Until the item arrives safely in your hand, it is the buyer responsible.

mo · Expire: 2016-07-30