Helios 44M Reassembly - help please

rukmeister · Expire: 2011-11-18

Well, I have this 44M that optically is perfect and has a nice clean and dry aperture, however it had a very very stiff focus ring. I pulled the mount off and my god! There was so much grease in there! Over everything, And dirty grease! God knows what was put in this thing and where that grease came from.

Anyway, disassembled, and cleaned out over a teaspoon of grease out (what the hell?!) It was all over everything inside the barrel. Sheesh.

So cleaned and regreased the focussing helicoid properly with an appropriate coating of white lithium grease. Started to reassemble, but I'm stuck at putting the aperture ring back on. I know there must be some trick to it, but damned if I can figure it out!

There are two bearings that sit on opposite sides of the barrel under the aperture ring - one is the click stops for 2/2.8/4 etc and the other is the half stops. Everytime I've tried to get the ring on one of the bearing slips out. I've been using a small amount of grease to hold the bearings in their recesses and trying to slip the ring back on over them.

Anyone done this before? There must be some trick to it right?

sichko · Joined: 20 Jun 2008 Posts: 2475 Location: South West UK

As you say, use a small amount of grease to hold the bearings. Place the aperture ring over one of these and push it as hard as you dare - to hold this bearing while you try to ease the ring over the second bearing.

greg · Expire: 2012-12-03

rukmeister · Expire: 2011-11-18

Thanks! That was exactly the tip I needed. Got it back on now. woohoo Very Happy

Bit of a wipe down with alcohol and some ROR on the glass. Took a test shot and everything works great now. Even the click stops feel better now.

Though now I have to do it all again Laughing

I've put the focus markings and aperture markings on the wrong side of the barrel. Rolling Eyes

Nordentro · Expire: 2015-01-29

Lloydy · Expire: 2022-01-01

I think a lot of people use just one ball when reassembling a Helios.

I've got two lenses and I've had both apart, I got both balls back in the first one, but the second one is partially neutered, and none the worse for it. Laughing

rukmeister · Expire: 2011-11-18

I can understand that, I almost gave up and just put one of them back only, but you'd lose half the click stops... I actually find myself using them sometimes though..

I'll post up a proper disassembly & reassembly guide now that I have to pull it apart again. Not today though I've had enough for one day and a new lens just arrived in the mail Very Happy

martinsmith99 · Expire: 2013-11-18

Hinko · Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Posts: 4

Dear rukmeister, can you provide the step by step procedures for dismantling the helios 44M? i have one of the same model, where i face a similar problem in inserting the bearing of the aperture ring. The reason i dismantle it is because the focus ring and the optical block seems to be wobbling with respect to the mount block. But i only open the lens up to the aperture ring, and do not know how to proceed. Can you enlighten me on this?TQ

Lloydy · Expire: 2022-01-01

http://www.euphonium.plus.com/Drawings/Helios%2520Repair%2520Manual%2520English.pdf

This is a useful link to Helios repair

These links to 'Psychotic Studios' blog did link to the best repair guide for the Helios ever, but it says the articles are being updated. I hope they reappear as they are very useful

http://retrotek.biz/blog/archives/140

http://retrotek.biz/blog/archives/118

Hinko · Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Posts: 4

Hi Lloydy, thanks for the reply. The pdf file is the 44 with preset ring. While the two retrotek sites, i can only see the comments there.
The helios that i have is the 44M with a A/M button, similar to the one shown by rukmeister.
My problem is the wobbling of the focussing ring with respect to the mount body. Is it due to loose screws or due to wear & tear of the threads of the helicoids?TQ

Lloydy · Expire: 2022-01-01

Yes, that first link is for the 44-2. Sorry. I have both lenses and just quickly copied the link.

The other links were really good, and I might have them saved somewhere as web pages. I'll go and search through my old computer.

Lloydy · Expire: 2022-01-01

http://chris.stingray.free.fr/Tuto/Modif_H44M4/Pinoche_H44M-4.html

I found the link to the pin modification.

http://chris.stingray.free.fr/Tuto/Modif_H44M4/Pinoche_H44M-4.html

I'll keep looking, I've got it somewhere. Rolling Eyes

Another link to modifying the Helios to Nikon fit - but there's a lot of pictures of the lens taken apart, they're useful pictures.

http://forum.manualfocus.org/viewtopic.php?id=15117

FOUND A GOOD ONE !!!

http://iznodil.free.fr/Tuto%20h%C3%A9lios.pps

It's French, and downloads the file immediately, but I've just done it and it seems OK. There's a great set of pictures for taking the lens apart.

http://forum.manualfocus.org/viewtopic.php?id=15117

rukmeister · Expire: 2011-11-18

God, I'd forgotton about that guide I meant to do. I'm putting it down to first time father sleep deprivation. I never did get to disassemble it again to fix the focus/aperture markings and the lens ended up already being handed down to a younger relative's new photography hobby.

Anyway, regarding the wobble, if you haven't already, you should remove the mount and have a look if that is the source of the wobble first, I don't think there's anything there in the mount that could cause that, but I could be wrong.

This is all from memory, but I believe there are three screws on the mount side. Before you pull it off, mark on the barrel the position of the mount relative to the barrel (probably should mark all along the barrel now rather than as you disassemble further -mount,aperture ring, etc). It is a little bit fiddly getting it back on as with the A/M switch being part of the mount, you need to have all the bits of the switching mechanism lined up. It all goes back together fairly easily, as long as everything is placed just right.

Just take note of where everything is when you take it apart. Don't force anything (except the bit I had trouble with - the bearings for the aperture click stops).

Once you have the mount off, you'll be looking at something similar to my picture above (except your aperture ring will still be on). You should be able to try wobbling the helicoid part from here and see if it is the helicoid that is the source of the wobble.

Hinko · Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Posts: 4

Thanks Lloydy, this link: http://forum.manualfocus.org/viewtopic.php?id=15117 is really useful. It's the same model as mine. But it seems that it did not go further to the helicoid.
Hi rukmeister, thanks for the info. I am wondering now shall i service the helicoid by cleaning all the old greases and applying new one to them as the focusing ring is a bit hard to turn. If i were to do so, what kind of grease shall i look for? When opening tha back of the lens, it seems that lots of dust accumulated inside. Have you tried opening those grub screws? it seems so delicate that i don't dare to open them.
TQ

rukmeister · Expire: 2011-11-18

If you can get to the stage where you are able to unscrew the helicoid part, you should clean and re grease it as it is fairly simple to do.
I recommend using white lithium grease which you can get from auto repair stores (the kind that sell car parts, oil, mats, tools etc).
Just make sure you don't over grease the helicoid. You only need a fairly light even coating. Once you apply it work the helicoid a bit... dozen times or so... before reassembly. Excess grease will work it's way out and you can remove that before putting it back in the lens. To check if you've lubricated the helicoid properly, before you put it back, unscrew it again and look at it. You should be able to see if the entire surface is coated. If not, add a little more and repeat.

I'm not 100% sure which screws you mean, but, I think you might need to remove some of the optics to be able to unscrew the helicoid. Again I'm not 100% sure, but I think that may be the grub screws you are looking at. Just make sure you don't disassemble to the point where you're messing with the actual aperture mechanism! If the aperture is still ok, it's best to just leave it alone!

When cleaning the optics (which you might as well do now that the lens is mostly disassembled) I recommend you always place the elements down on the table FRONT side down so you know which way they go. Also I recommend using iso alcohol and ROR (Residual Oil Remover) and PEC pads. If you can't get these easily just iso alcohol and a bunch of microfibre cloths will probably do.

If the dust you are talking about is inside the section where the aperture is housed, it's really up to you. It's a big job and it's not easy if things go wrong.

Go slow, be patient, and take regular breaks! When you're tired, stiff and hungry, you make mistakes.

Hinko · Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Posts: 4

Thanks rukmeister! I have one more question, what shall i use to wipe off those old greases? Can it be done with just a damp cloth?
TQ.

rukmeister · Expire: 2011-11-18

No problem. Just use a clean, dry, lint free cloth to get rid of most of the grease first, qtips are good too, and then another cloth with some iso alcohol to remove the rest.

Gary.M · Joined: 08 Sep 2012 Posts: 2 Location: New Zealand

For those who are interested you can use the Wayback Machine to access older versions of websites that have changed. For example:

Adjusting and Cleaning Focus on Helios 44M:

http://web.archive.org/web/20100713213159/http://psychoticstudios.net/blog/archives/140

And this one covers cleaning the aperture.

http://web.archive.org/web/20100408020339/http://psychoticstudios.net/blog/archives/118

Gary.M · Joined: 08 Sep 2012 Posts: 2 Location: New Zealand

I think I may be restricted from posting web links as the message I posted above contains links to archived descriptions of maintenance on the lens, when I preview the post it works perfectly, but when I submit it it appears as above. Perhaps an admin needs to make some adjustment so that you can all benefit from the links?

skida · Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:47 am Post subject:

Links and photos don't show in your very first post here until you post a second time (as you may have noticed). It is an anti-spam measure.

Lightshow · Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3666 Location: Calgary

mackeral · Joined: 21 Oct 2012 Posts: 64 Location: United States

A bit of an old topic, but maybe someone can help me with this. I am going to break my Helios 44m down and clean it but that retrotek link makes no mention of re-greasing with newer lube. Is this just optional? If grease needs to be used, what is a good grease for this? Thansk guys and gals

Lloydy · Expire: 2022-01-01

http://forum.mflenses.com/grease-for-helicoid-t53257.html

Big discussion of greasing helicoids here, same forum.

thundertwin72 · Expire: 2013-12-16