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TBaker
Joined: 02 Dec 2009 Posts: 344 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:49 pm Post subject: Helios-40...Different Colour Coatings |
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TBaker wrote:
I'm looking at getting a Helios-40 85 1.5. I've noticed that some of the silver bodied ones have different colour coatings.
What are the build quality like with the silver body Helios and would a lower Ser# be any different that a higher Ser#?
Here's an example.
Low Ser# with blue coating also with a extra red mark on the ring.
High Ser# with redish coating
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AhamB
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 733 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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AhamB wrote:
That top one really has a nice blue sapphire colour, but I'd go for the bottom one because it doesn't have the yellowed glass, so the colour balance will be better and transmission will be higher. You may be able to correct the yellow glass by adjusting the white balance, but you will not get the light that was absorbed in the glass. |
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spleenone
Joined: 26 Dec 2009 Posts: 1130 Location: Slovakia
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Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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spleenone wrote:
AhamB wrote: |
That top one really has a nice blue sapphire colour, but I'd go for the bottom one because it doesn't have the yellowed glass, so the colour balance will be better and transmission will be higher. You may be able to correct the yellow glass by adjusting the white balance, but you will not get the light that was absorbed in the glass. |
I don't think that you lose so much light due that yelowing. Guess there are minimal absorption. You would have some problems with WB, indeed. But it is not such challege if you don't want to shoot slides or be fast with digital. Measured it is ~1500K warmer than normal.
In fact is that red pi mark means better coating something like V on Meyer or T mark on Zeiss lenses for instance. It is true that coatings are not in high standart qualities but many older lenses show some flares of reduced contrast when you shoot backlighted objects or when you are shooting to spot light. Also this lens.
Built quality is probly the same but serials with starting 00 are special pieces as I read. The best ones or ... maybe somebody from forum would have better quotation =/ _________________ Shoot on analog mainly with
Nikkor glass
then Pentacon6TL for squares
and Fujica GL690 in case of 6x9
Carpe diem! |
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AhamB
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 733 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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AhamB wrote:
@spleenone
I don't have personal experience with these lenses but I've heard about the Super Tak 50/1.4 and others as well that the light loss can be significant, so you can't rule it out. |
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Sevo
Joined: 22 Aug 2008 Posts: 1189 Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Expire: 2012-12-03
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Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Sevo wrote:
One stop is easily lost. Without a reference you might not even notice a one stop yellowing unless you compare lenses (or use a hand-held meter). I had a Takumar that gained almost two stops on UV bleaching, and I did not even notice it had yellowed until I directly compared it to a clear lens. _________________ Sevo
Last edited by Sevo on Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dude163
Joined: 21 Mar 2010 Posts: 726 Location: New Brunswick , Canada
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Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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dude163 wrote:
I live in Canada and have a Helios 40 available if you are interested?
its already converted to m42 _________________ Stormtrooper white Pentax K-X m42 adapter
Soviets: Helios 44m-6 and 40-1 , Pentacon 50mm f1.8
Taks : ST 28mm f3.5 , ST 35mm f3.5, SMC 50mm f1.4 , ST 55mm f2 , SMC 135 f 3.5 , ST 200 f 4
CZJ Tessar 50/2.8 1954 model
Leica m8u : Rigid cron 50/2 Elmar 90/4 Elmarit 135/2.8 Jupiter8 50/2 Serenar 85/2
my flickr : http://www.flickr.com/photos/riverviewfoto/
Vintage lens blog : http://dude163.blogspot.com/
500px : http://500px.com/roberttwilson |
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pirius
Joined: 28 May 2009 Posts: 133 Location: SoFla
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Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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pirius wrote:
The Red П version is a top quality; I've read that the low serial numbers were reserved for lenses that came out best during quality control. However, the color of the coating on the second lens is the same as that of multi-coated Helios 40-2 lenses, so I wonder if it is one of the early MC versions - a transition model or something. Then it may have better flare prevention, but lower contrast. Anyhow, the difference in quality tolerances even between different Helios lenses of the same vintage can be bigger than the difference between coatings. In this case I would probably go for the Red П (first) lens because of more guaranteed optical performance and cured yellowing with UV light. |
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aoleg
Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 1387 Location: Berlin, DE
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Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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aoleg wrote:
There were no MC versions made of Helios-40 (2). There were, however, several coating types used throughout the life of the lens. The blue coatings produced the warmest image. Purple/magenta coatings were used later; those produced more neutral results with sometimes warm/green color shift. The final version used amber coatings that produced the most neutral, slightly cool result.
Interestingly, Jupiter-9 used blue, magenta, colorless (? I don't know how that is, but reflections of late non-MC versions appear to be of no particular color), and MC coatings throughout its life. All produced different color shifts.
BTW, some manufacturers (e.g. Fuji, Nippon Kogaku) coated different lens elements differently. For example, Nikkor-P 105/2.5 (Sonnar type) has amber coatings on front and middle lens elements and purple/blue coatings on the rear glass to compensate for the differences in color transmission. _________________ List of lenses |
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fotkino
Joined: 04 May 2011 Posts: 111 Location: Russia, Moscow
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 6:09 am Post subject: Re: Helios-40...Different Colour Coatings |
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fotkino wrote:
TBaker wrote: |
I'm looking at getting a Helios-40 85 1.5. I've noticed that some of the silver bodied ones have different colour coatings.
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I apologize for the late reply, may be still useful.
The first two digits in the majority of Soviet lenses - the year of manufacture of the lens:
00 - mean pre-production (in this case it`s a 1957);
65 - mean 1965
"П" (Pi) - in the first ten years of manufacturing coated optics for the Soviet Union meant - "coated" or "Просветленная", then all the optics in the USSR was made coated - the need for additional marking gone.
This "П" is not modern "L" and does not imply a difference in quality.
The coating color is different in mind to make progress in the Soviet chemical industry, violet coating gave a yellow tint in the photos, and eventually was replaced by another. _________________ _____________________________________
Sorry for my English |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Helios-40...Different Colour Coatings |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
fotkino wrote: |
TBaker wrote: |
I'm looking at getting a Helios-40 85 1.5. I've noticed that some of the silver bodied ones have different colour coatings.
|
I apologize for the late reply, may be still useful.
The first two digits in the majority of Soviet lenses - the year of manufacture of the lens:
00 - mean pre-production (in this case it`s a 1957);
65 - mean 1965
"П" (Pi) - in the first ten years of manufacturing coated optics for the Soviet Union meant - "coated" or "Просветленная", then all the optics in the USSR was made coated - the need for additional marking gone.
This "П" is not modern "L" and does not imply a difference in quality.
The coating color is different in mind to make progress in the Soviet chemical industry, violet coating gave a yellow tint in the photos, and eventually was replaced by another. |
Excellent Info, cheers.
I have a Helios-44-2 from 75 that has the same coloured coating as the 67 Helios-40 pictured.
This is how it handles flare when the sun is behind the subject:
_________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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