Home

Please support mflenses.com if you need any graphic related work order it from us, click on above banner to order!
SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

First impressions Voigtlander Nokton 58mm f/1.4
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Home   Manual Focus Lenses
View previous topic :: View next topic  


PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:22 pm    Post subject: First impressions Voigtlander Nokton 58mm f/1.4 Reply with quote
After days of terrible weather, I finally had the opportunity to take out my new Nokton 58/1.4.

First image:
Nokton5814DSC09655 by devoscasper, on Flickr

I'm usually not so impressed by claimed 3D quality of lenses, but he depth perception of this lens is quite remarkable to my eyes. I think the upper and the next 2 images show this:
Nokton5814DSC09634 by devoscasper, on Flickr

Nokton5814DSC09650 by devoscasper, on Flickr

Stopped down a bit, the 3D effect still exists IMO:
Nokton5814DSC09627 by devoscasper, on Flickr

Naturally, it sometimes hard to nail the focus at wide open aperture:
Nokton5814DSC09628 by devoscasper, on Flickr

At wide apertures (f/1.4 and f/2), the lens has an interesting vintage quality to it. Stopped down, the lens gets very,very sharp. Next image at f/5.6, unsharpened. Click for full resolution. This is a crop out of the full image.
Nokton5814DSC09642 by devoscasper, on Flickr

My first impressions of this lens are pretty good. It's not 'perfect' wide open, but the image is very interesting, call it vintage. At f/1.4 quite soft; at f/2 much sharper, at f/2.8 very sharp. 3D quality, or depth perception, is definitely a virtue of this lens. There are CA's at wider apertures in high contrast situations. Once stopped down, this lens loses it vintage look, and turns crazy sharp. So this lens is really a combination of a vintage and a modern lens if you ask me.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lovely results

Looks like a nice tool to have ....

TFS !


PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1 Like 1 Like 1


PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow that bokeh is interesting.

To my eyes quite harsh outlining, but if your tastes skew that way this is a killer lens for it!

I can see why 3d pop might be a thing with these examples.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Same 7/6 extended Ultron lens construction schema like the Minolta MD (latest versions) and AF 50/1.4 (available as Sony A as well).
Would be interesting to see a comparison.
Most likely not much difference besides the slightly longer FL of the Voigtländer variant.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
Same 7/6 extended Ultron lens construction schema like the Minolta MD (latest versions) and AF 50/1.4 (available as Sony A as well).
Would be interesting to see a comparison.
Most likely not much difference besides the slightly longer FL of the Voigtländer variant.


Unfortunately I don’t have that lens to compare.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've always gotten good results with mine. I believe it's supposed to be a modernized copy of the 58mm Topcor 1.4, but I've never had my hands on one of those.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
tb_a wrote:
Same 7/6 extended Ultron lens construction schema like the Minolta MD (latest versions) and AF 50/1.4 (available as Sony A as well).
Would be interesting to see a comparison.
Most likely not much difference besides the slightly longer FL of the Voigtländer variant.


Unfortunately I don’t have that lens to compare.


Thanks, no problem. I don't expect really visible differences anyway from what I've seen from your examples.
The Minolta versions (I habe both MD and AF) are excellent performers as well.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
KEO wrote:
I've always gotten good results with mine. I believe it's supposed to be a modernized copy of the 58mm Topcor 1.4, but I've never had my hands on one of those.


Yes, the Topcor 58/1.4 is an 7/6 extended Ultron as well, like the C/Y Planar 50/1.4, Yashica Lens 50/1.4 and the already mentioned Minoltas, amongst others.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quite nice! Is this lens based on Topcor 58mm f/1.4?

For the Topcor 58mm f/1.4, I feel for my copy, the close distance image is quite hazy and unsharp. Mid range performance is not so impressive as claimed by other reviews. Maybe it is copy variation?

I am eyeing for the CV 40mm f/1.2.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
KEO wrote:
I've always gotten good results with mine. I believe it's supposed to be a modernized copy of the 58mm Topcor 1.4, but I've never had my hands on one of those.


Yes, the Topcor 58/1.4 is an 7/6 extended Ultron as well, like the C/Y Planar 50/1.4, Yashica Lens 50/1.4 and the already mentioned Minoltas, amongst others.


I find the Yashica ML 50/1.4 quite a different lens in rendering despite having a similar optical construction, but this could maybe be explained by the different focal length.

I have no experience with the other lenses. It probably resembles the Topcor 58/1.4, because I believe this inspired the Nokton like already mentioned, and it has the same focal length.

Resolution wise it seems superior to probably all standard lenses I've ever used (except the Sony 50/1.8 maybe) at least stopped down. Maybe I will test it against the Mamiya SX 55/1.8 (late model) and Micro-Nikkor 55/3.5 to find out if this suspicion is true. I could also throw in my Minolta AF 50/2.8 macro that arrived yesterday. That one seems really sharp as well.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
tb_a wrote:
KEO wrote:
I've always gotten good results with mine. I believe it's supposed to be a modernized copy of the 58mm Topcor 1.4, but I've never had my hands on one of those.


Yes, the Topcor 58/1.4 is an 7/6 extended Ultron as well, like the C/Y Planar 50/1.4, Yashica Lens 50/1.4 and the already mentioned Minoltas, amongst others.


I find the Yashica ML 50/1.4 quite a different lens in rendering despite having a similar optical construction, but this could maybe be explained by the different focal length.

I have no experience with the other lenses. It probably resembles the Topcor 58/1.4, because I believe this inspired the Nokton like already mentioned, and it has the same focal length.

Resolution wise it seems superior to probably all standard lenses I've ever used (except the Sony 50/1.8 maybe) at least stopped down. Maybe I will test it against the Mamiya SX 55/1.8 (late model) and Micro-Nikkor 55/3.5 to find out if this suspicion is true. I could also throw in my Minolta AF 50/2.8 macro that arrived yesterday. That one seems really sharp as well.


Indeed, the difference in focal length does make a difference. Other than that the characteristics seem to be quite comparable.

And yes, the Voigtländer lens is more or less a modern copy of the old Topcor one.

In Terms of resolution the Minolta (and Sony) 50/1.4 are also top-notch, however in terms of corner performance on the A7R2 the Sony FE 50/1.8 is superior as checked by my infinity landscape comparisons, but that's already an old story anyway. Wink


PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
KEO wrote:
I've always gotten good results with mine. I believe it's supposed to be a modernized copy of the 58mm Topcor 1.4, but I've never had my hands on one of those.


The RE Topcor is a 7/5 optical formula. However, the Nokton still seems related. It looks like Voigtlander separated the front doublet into two elements making it a 7/6 formula.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
KEO wrote:
I've always gotten good results with mine. I believe it's supposed to be a modernized copy of the 58mm Topcor 1.4, but I've never had my hands on one of those.


The RE Topcor is a 7/5 optical formula. However, the Nokton still seems related. It looks like Voigtlander separated the front doublet into two elements making it a 7/6 formula.


To be really correct: The original Topcor 58mm/1.4 as introduced 1963 by Topcon was a 7/5 optical formula commonly known as "Planar".
The Auto-Topcor 58/1.4 as produced by Cosina was already the 7/6 Ultron formula identical to the later Cosina Voigtländer Nokton 58/1.4.

What I don't know is whether there was a later 7/6 version produced by Topcon as well, as the Topcor 58/1.8 definitely did exist in several versions from ordinary double Gauss 6/4 to Ultron 6/5.

Therefore it may well be that the 58/1.4 version as produced by Topcon did exist in several versions as well.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1 Nice outcomes.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A great separation of object from the backround and very nice colour rendering!


PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
cbass wrote:
KEO wrote:
I've always gotten good results with mine. I believe it's supposed to be a modernized copy of the 58mm Topcor 1.4, but I've never had my hands on one of those.


The RE Topcor is a 7/5 optical formula. However, the Nokton still seems related. It looks like Voigtlander separated the front doublet into two elements making it a 7/6 formula.


To be really correct: The original Topcor 58mm/1.4 as introduced 1963 by Topcon was a 7/5 optical formula commonly known as "Planar".
The Auto-Topcor 58/1.4 as produced by Cosina was already the 7/6 Ultron formula identical to the later Cosina Voigtländer Nokton 58/1.4.

What I don't know is whether there was a later 7/6 version produced by Topcon as well, as the Topcor 58/1.8 definitely did exist in several versions from ordinary double Gauss 6/4 to Ultron 6/5.

Therefore it may well be that the 58/1.4 version as produced by Topcon did exist in several versions as well.


Pretty sure the Topcor 58/1.4 was never produced as a 7/6. I have in my possession probably the last iteration before production stopped.

caspert79 wrote:

Resolution wise it seems superior to probably all standard lenses I've ever used (except the Sony 50/1.8 maybe) at least stopped down. Maybe I will test it against the Mamiya SX 55/1.8 (late model) and Micro-Nikkor 55/3.5 to find out if this suspicion is true. I could also throw in my Minolta AF 50/2.8 macro that arrived yesterday. That one seems really sharp as well.


My understanding is before the Otus was released the Nokton was pretty much up there when it came to resolution. Of course, not wide open, but starting from around f/2.8 and really getting world class excellent by f/4.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
tb_a wrote:
cbass wrote:
KEO wrote:
I've always gotten good results with mine. I believe it's supposed to be a modernized copy of the 58mm Topcor 1.4, but I've never had my hands on one of those.


The RE Topcor is a 7/5 optical formula. However, the Nokton still seems related. It looks like Voigtlander separated the front doublet into two elements making it a 7/6 formula.


To be really correct: The original Topcor 58mm/1.4 as introduced 1963 by Topcon was a 7/5 optical formula commonly known as "Planar".
The Auto-Topcor 58/1.4 as produced by Cosina was already the 7/6 Ultron formula identical to the later Cosina Voigtländer Nokton 58/1.4.

What I don't know is whether there was a later 7/6 version produced by Topcon as well, as the Topcor 58/1.8 definitely did exist in several versions from ordinary double Gauss 6/4 to Ultron 6/5.

Therefore it may well be that the 58/1.4 version as produced by Topcon did exist in several versions as well.


Pretty sure the Topcor 58/1.4 was never produced as a 7/6. I have in my possession probably the last iteration before production stopped.


That's interesting as the Topcor 58/1.4 when reissued by Cosina was announced to be a 100% copy of the original and this was definitely already a 7/6 construction according Cosina documentation.

Other manufacturers like e.g. Minolta very silently switched from 7/5 to the better 7/6 construction (50/1.4), but this was most probably a little bit later....

However, good to know. I certainly would not buy a 7/5 lens. All I've seen so far are below the 7/6 siblings. Same is true for the slower versions; e.g. the later 6/5 version is better than the older 6/4 version.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1 Like 1 Congrats Extreme sharpness witness that mustache in crop! Smile


PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
cbass wrote:
tb_a wrote:
cbass wrote:
KEO wrote:
I've always gotten good results with mine. I believe it's supposed to be a modernized copy of the 58mm Topcor 1.4, but I've never had my hands on one of those.


The RE Topcor is a 7/5 optical formula. However, the Nokton still seems related. It looks like Voigtlander separated the front doublet into two elements making it a 7/6 formula.


To be really correct: The original Topcor 58mm/1.4 as introduced 1963 by Topcon was a 7/5 optical formula commonly known as "Planar".
The Auto-Topcor 58/1.4 as produced by Cosina was already the 7/6 Ultron formula identical to the later Cosina Voigtländer Nokton 58/1.4.

What I don't know is whether there was a later 7/6 version produced by Topcon as well, as the Topcor 58/1.8 definitely did exist in several versions from ordinary double Gauss 6/4 to Ultron 6/5.

Therefore it may well be that the 58/1.4 version as produced by Topcon did exist in several versions as well.


Pretty sure the Topcor 58/1.4 was never produced as a 7/6. I have in my possession probably the last iteration before production stopped.


That's interesting as the Topcor 58/1.4 when reissued by Cosina was announced to be a 100% copy of the original and this was definitely already a 7/6 construction according Cosina documentation.

Other manufacturers like e.g. Minolta very silently switched from 7/5 to the better 7/6 construction (50/1.4), but this was most probably a little bit later....

However, good to know. I certainly would not buy a 7/5 lens. All I've seen so far are below the 7/6 siblings. Same is true for the slower versions; e.g. the later 6/5 version is better than the older 6/4 version.


Is there documentation that it was supposed to be a copy? My understanding is it was a tribute lens and the limited run was made to look like the Topcor 58/1.4 and even had Auto-Topcor and Tokyo Kogaku printed on it. I do not know why Cosina did not go with a direct optical formula copy, but I am interested in knowing if someone has any information. After the tribute lens the optics were moved to the Nokton.

Why would you not buy a 7/5 lens? There is a single comparison I know about of the Nokton vs the Topcor the images now long removed and the Nokton was not a clear winner. The Topcor was actually sharper from f/2.8-f/5.6. Also, the Topcor in typical Topcon fashion had much less chromatic aberrations which is something the Nokton is plagued by even stopped down pretty far.

Leica used a 7/5 formula in the summilux up until 2004 and the introduction of the ASPH summilux.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:


Why would you not buy a 7/5 lens? There is a single comparison I know about of the Nokton vs the Topcor the images now long removed and the Nokton was not a clear winner. The Topcor was actually sharper from f/2.8-f/5.6. Also, the Topcor in typical Topcon fashion had much less chromatic aberrations which is something the Nokton is plagued by even stopped down pretty far.


Well, it always depends on personal taste and requirements.

From my own experience, generally speaking, the ancient concept of double gauss with extended rear element (7/5) was always below the more modern Ultron concept with extended rear element (7/6), particularly when it comes to edge to edge sharpness which is very important for me, at least when both lenses are coming from the same manufacturer. Maybe there are some exceptions to this rule. I certainly didn't test or compare each and every lens out of this category myself. But out of the lenses I own and tested myself this is true and I always prefer to test lenses myself on my own cameras instead of believing what others are stating. Wink

What seems to be clear is that the Cosina Topcor is optically identical to the Cosina Voigtländer lens. Other than that I've got no idea as already stated. I own myself only the Topcor 58/1.8 in the latest 6/5 version which is BTW not bad at all, hence I was never really motivated to get and try the faster F1.4 version as well; particularly as I own more lenses that I will ever need in this focal range already.

Anyway, from what I've seen here (Voigtländer Nokton 58/1.4 on A7R2) I think I'm well served with my existing lenses already.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:

My understanding is before the Otus was released the Nokton was pretty much up there when it came to resolution. Of course, not wide open, but starting from around f/2.8 and really getting world class excellent by f/4.


I think you're right there. Lenstip.com tested its resolution 'almost record breaking', this was in 2010 on the D3x.
Opticallimits showed its resolution to exceed the sensor of the 5d mk2.

IMO it shows: I can't remember such sharp results at f/4 and f/5.6 from any of the probably 50 mf standard lenses I've used. Glass has improved apparently.

It doesn't mean the Nokton is without its flaws, after all it's an old lens design, and never meant to be optically perfect like for instance the Otus. Especially at wider apertures, there are imperfections. Closed down though.....not so many.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
@tb_a

It depends on your design goals. There is more to photography than just the landscape at wide aperture. Leica also moved the design of the Summicron from a 7/6 to 6/4.

I don't have a vast collection of 7/6 50mm lenses. However, the two I know about struggle when it comes to chromatic aberrations even stopped down pretty far. I am not sure if it inherent to a 7/6 setup or if it's just the implementation of those two lenses.

I once started a thread on here asking how much better the Topcor 58/1.4 is than the 58/1.8. These days I own all three Topcor 58's the final being the macro and have used them for some time now in various shooting conditions. I now realize how stupid the question I asked was. Each of those lenses has a different purpose and such is optimized for those conditions. The Topcor 58/1.8 is a landscape lens optimized for infinity. The 58/1.4 is a portrait lens optimized for bokeh and mid shooting distances. Even the mechanics point to this as the focus throw is so much more precise but longer than the 58/1.8. The macro is optimized for close distances and probably the highest resolution. Does that mean the macro can't be used for landscape? No, it actually does pretty well but it will be behind lenses optimized for landscape.

I don't know what Cosina optimized the Nokton for, but to me it seems they tried to preserve the optimization of the original


PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks very good.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
It depends on your design goals. There is more to photography than just the landscape at wide aperture.


Just a final comment: I would NEVER do any landscape wider than F5.6. After more than 50 years of photography I know the basics.
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Home   Manual Focus Lenses
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2