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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, that is a really interesting project to me, too.
Unfortunately it looks like its goal of 25 000$ will not be reached till December 28. Only 6 days left...


PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
edited

Last edited by bernhardas on Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
bernhardas wrote:

I can understand that a petzval with heliocod and aperture is much more user friendly. I always thought that is called Helios 40 ? Very Happy
And it is not much cheaper?

Very Happy


PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
edited

Last edited by bernhardas on Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I was mistaken about the ability of the Petzval look to scale down to 35mm or smaller.
The second kickstarter guy seems to demonstrate that there is value here.
If there were some way to get such a lens to 50-75mm it would be very interesting indeed for digital.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The second Kickstarter does look really interesting, but I am sceptic about the project.
He only has a 25 000 $ goal ????

But does look nice.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
edited

Last edited by bernhardas on Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:57 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The second project indeed looks more appealing and truly useful. I don't believe that shiny petzval would see much daily use by me...


PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I asked him a few things about the project. His prototype has 6 aperture blades (one of his pictures shows a bronze color like the early Soviet Arsenal lenses) so he plans to carry that over to the production model. I also asked him about the coating he mentions in the kickstarter. He said it will probably come down to costumer choice but single and multi-coatings are possible.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
edited

Last edited by bernhardas on Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I truly dislike the lomography project, because it's all about form over substance, bright shiny object with no concern for usability, pure marketing crap for inflated price.

The second project is something I would very much like to succeed. It's a proper lens that one would actually use as opposed to showing off in the vitrine. The weakness that I see is that no price is mentioned (did I miss it?). Unfortunately, I have strong doubts that one can make this economical outside of China due to machining costs. At the end of the day optically it's a rather simple lens with lots of flaws, so when choosing between it and summicron for the same kind of money, I would probably go with summicron, as unromantic as it is.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
edited

Last edited by bernhardas on Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Actually, it's not my state of mind. My main "system" is Canon FD, I guess that shows where my priorities lie. I've chosen Leica for comparison, simply because the price level is similar, but at least Leica is known for outstanding optical quality.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hello! I really appreciate all that interest and positive feedback about my Petzvar lens project.
As I have mentioned in my project description, I have created this lens over three years ago for my personal use, without intension to reproduce it.
I never thought, that any established company will produce this kind of lens on the larger scale, due to its optical flaws and fairly limited demand.
Even after Lomography success, I still think that it is rather custom, not mass produce lens.

My project's 25000$ goal is not very high, but enough to cover the expenses for production of small order of the Petzvar lens.
I do not think, that it is even correct to compare it to Summicron etc., because its price is based on a very limited volume of production.
But, on the other hand, mass produced lenses are available today and will be available tomorrow, while the Petzvar is a true custom lens. Its production is entirely relying on support of my backers. I really hope to reach the project goal, otherwise it will be only existing as a prototype ( well, unless Lomography decide to create another Petzval, for medium format, it wouldn't be that difficult for a well established company).

Again, I appreciate all of the support and kind feedback of all fellow photographers.
Denys Ivanichek.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Retrospective wrote:

I do not think, that it is even correct to compare it to Summicron etc., because its price is based on a very limited volume of production.
But, on the other hand, mass produced lenses are available today and will be available tomorrow, while the Petzvar is a true custom lens.


I understand that and I hope you will get the backers. I was talking from the purely utilitarian user perspective. I am sure some people will put more value on the uniqueness of your proposition. Regardless, I think you should give your potential customers a realistic price estimate. It is only fair to the people backing you and it will improve the perception of your project (at least in eyes of certain type of people).


PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fermy wrote:
Retrospective wrote:

I do not think, that it is even correct to compare it to Summicron etc., because its price is based on a very limited volume of production.
But, on the other hand, mass produced lenses are available today and will be available tomorrow, while the Petzvar is a true custom lens.


I understand that and I hope you will get the backers. I was talking from the purely utilitarian user perspective. I am sure some people will put more value on the uniqueness of your proposition. Regardless, I think you should give your potential customers a realistic price estimate. It is only fair to the people backing you and it will improve the perception of your project (at least in eyes of certain type of people).

Sure, you are right. But there is a pledge rewards in any Kickstarter project. If you are talking about the estimate cost of manufacturing, this number depends on order quantity. My current goal and amount of pledges are reflecting the cost of tooling for glass elements manufacturing and machining of a small batch order of aluminum lens housing parts.


PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I am saying that you should clearly spell out how much the lens will cost resale and to the backer. Notice that the Lomography did that very clearly right from the start, and they easily went over the required threshold, despite the fact that their product is very flawed.


PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
fermy wrote:
I am saying that you should clearly spell out how much the lens will cost resale and to the backer. Notice that the Lomography did that very clearly right from the start, and they easily went over the required threshold, despite the fact that their product is very flawed.

Please, excuse me. Now I see what you mean.
They have clearly mentioned the resale price just because it is a well known marketing trick to make their backers feel like they are buying the lens at the good price. After all, they are well established company and they didn't even need that Kickstarter campaign to finance their lens.
I have started my project in response to numerous inquires about my lens and the project's goal is to produce a small custom order of the lens for those photographers, interested in getting a medium format Petzval lens.
It is difficult to reach an attention of interested people for this small order project, I don't even mention a larger scale manufacturing.
One of the very common comments is: I really love your project, but I have already invested in Lomo lens.


PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Retrospective wrote:

They have clearly mentioned the resale price just because it is a well known marketing trick to make their backers feel like they are buying the lens at the good price. After all, they are well established company and they didn't even need that Kickstarter campaign to finance their lens.


Yes, you are right on all counts. However, this is a necessity so that people see that you are serious and have done your homework and also see what kind of deal they will get from this project. It's fairly obvious that you are not going to produce in Canon quantities. You can safely assume that the final pledged amount is around 25K and starting from there it's fairly easy to estimate the quantity produced and the price that you will have to charge to make this viable.

What you are showing lens-wise is very good. But you are an unknown quantity, so in order to to get people's backing you've got to show that you have financial/production side figured out. At least that's the way I see it.


PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
edited

Last edited by bernhardas on Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:58 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
bernhardas wrote:


It is exactly the utilitarian aspect in that we disagree. I can buy many sharp low distortion lenses, where the difference between them is so small, that the utilitarian value they add is minimal. There is no FD or Leica Petzval lens. So adding one to the collection has a meaningful utilitarian value. Whether that value is worth the price is an individual decision that can not really debated.

I understand that you do not put any value on owning a petzval lens. That is your choice and I can not argue with that. But you should also not try to tell others where their priorities should lie. Wink


I don't think we disagree that much. I do put a value on owning a Petzval lens. In fact, one of my favorite lenses is uncoated Leitz Summar. It's not a Petzval, but technically it is a flawed lens as well http://forum.mflenses.com/leitz-summar-2-50mm-from-1937-t57300.html

The difference is simply where we draw the value line. I didn't pay 1K for my Summar and I wouldn't. Oh yeah, and whatever I write should be prefixed with IMHO by default. I am far from telling people how to spend their money. This is altogether different from expressing my attitude towards Lomography marketing exercises.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
edited

Last edited by bernhardas on Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:58 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
This would appear to show how popular the idea really is amongst photographers.

Plenty people like the idea but few will put their hands in their pocket.

Personally I'd buy a real one and make a mount. It would be cheaper by far and would be at least authentic. If I could be bothered as I'd hardly ever use it.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Congrats Denys !!!

I'm very glad to see that the 25000$ goal was reached!
This lens is a dream that really worth to come true.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
edited

Last edited by bernhardas on Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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