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deciding to head in the direction of full manual
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:17 pm    Post subject: deciding to head in the direction of full manual Reply with quote
I'm new to this forum. (Hi!) And have recently taken interest in photography. A few years ago I was pretty excited about taking pictures and used an AE-1 which the winder broke and I just sort of stopped taking photographs. I've been interested in cinema for awhile and on the tertiary begun taking photographs again. I have a lot more focus now but still basic, consumer equipment. Just a RebelG, the kit lens and a 50mm prime.

I'll probably invest in a better eos camera like the eos3 or 1n rs but I'm also interested in stepping back towards a more full manual operation. It'd be fun, and cheap, to get an AE-1 again but I want to get away from batteries. Part of what interest me so much about the older cameras and the enormous range or camera build and lenses - a lot that are fairly cheap with good optics. I've looked around on the internet a bit looking for different perspectives on older camera bodies and read a lot of different opinion (Pentax K1000, Minolta SRT series, Nikon FM, Ricoh KRII, Yashica FX-3 Super 2000, and various K-mount Vivitar SLRs) These are all 'beginner' camera as far as I can tell. And that's okay. I don't mind starting there. Something that is somewhat easily accessible through KEH or ebay or other vendors and has an arrange of lens and filters available as well. I've also been looking at Exakta cameras and other older models but I don't really know what I'm getting into

But I'm also interested in going a little bit beyond that. I'm on a fairly limited budget and will probably only get one to start off with. Any opinion on the models listed above would be welcome or one unlisted as well. I want something that supports a lot of glass even if it means getting adapters sometimes.

I'm in this place right now where I have all this energy and curiosity that could be channeled in all sorts of ways - patience, frustration, excitement, usually all three. So all suggestions appreciated!


PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi an welcome. If you want to use full manual without any gadgetery look for M42's bodies : some don't need batteries ( Praktica ) . Very cheap ones and a full range of lenses to play with Very Happy

good choice


PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
+1 for Hexi

+ Pentax Spotmatic

+ Konica cameras
+ Yashica cameras

Yashica Electro 35 produce awesome quality I beleive better than SLR cameras.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
So many cheap bodies out there! And I have loads of old M42 ones you are welcome to Laughing


PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:20 pm    Post subject: Manual cameras Reply with quote
If you get a Canon, Fujica, Minolta, Pentax or Yashica bayonet mount camera then you can use their own families of lenses plus any M42 ones as well. All did mechanical models and right now the Canon lenses particularly are cheap to buy because it's not been possible to utilise them on DSLRs - and they're still plentiful. As well as usually very good.

Pentax K bodies are usually a bit more expensive than the others (in UK at least) and Yashicas and Fujicas the least expensive. Minolta SRTs come in the middle.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shrek wrote:
So many cheap bodies out there! And I have loads of old M42 ones you are welcome to Laughing

All Prakticas and Zenit I bet!
Laughing Laughing Laughing


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
martinsmith99 wrote:
Shrek wrote:
So many cheap bodies out there! And I have loads of old M42 ones you are welcome to Laughing

All Prakticas and Zenit I bet!
Laughing Laughing Laughing


Haha, you know me too well Laughing I nearly have more Zenits and Prakticas than discarded Skylight filters now...nearly... Laughing


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Manual cameras Reply with quote
scsambrook wrote:
If you get a Canon, Fujica, Minolta, Pentax or Yashica bayonet mount camera then you can use their own families of lenses plus any M42 ones as well. All did mechanical models and right now the Canon lenses particularly are cheap to buy because it's not been possible to utilise them on DSLRs - and they're still plentiful. As well as usually very good.

Pardon my ignorance, but this confuses me a little. If the M42 is a screw type mount, are you implying that most bayonet style mounts (for instance canon's FD) have adapters for the M42 type? I've noticed the adapters for Pentax K-mounts to use with M42. Are there different adapters for all, or most, of the different builds of bayonet style mounts?

Thanks for all the suggestions you all. It will take me some time to digest all this information so I have, at least, a surface idea of what I'm getting into. Smile


PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:20 am    Post subject: Re: Manual cameras Reply with quote
jessup wrote:
scsambrook wrote:
If you get a Canon, Fujica, Minolta, Pentax or Yashica bayonet mount camera then you can use their own families of lenses plus any M42 ones as well. All did mechanical models and right now the Canon lenses particularly are cheap to buy because it's not been possible to utilise them on DSLRs - and they're still plentiful. As well as usually very good.

Pardon my ignorance, but this confuses me a little. If the M42 is a screw type mount, are you implying that most bayonet style mounts (for instance canon's FD) have adapters for the M42 type? I've noticed the adapters for Pentax K-mounts to use with M42. Are there different adapters for all, or most, of the different builds of bayonet style mounts?



With the correct adapter, you can mount M42 lenses to practically every non M42 camera mount. For example if you get a M42 to FD adapter, you will be able to use M42 lens on Canon AE-1 body.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
You can find many M42 lenses and Pentax Spoty, Pratica MTL and Fujica ST series in auction website easily with good price. With adapter ring, you can also share these lens to Canon EOS and other DSLR. That's why I go M42.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi jessup. My feeling is it would make you a much better photographer if you start at the bottom of the ladder of technical advancement, and climb up it later when you're ready.

The first 35mm SLR cameras were completely manual. Besides manually focussing, the photographer had to decide and set the lens aperture and the shutter speed himself, depending on the available light, the film speed, whether he needed a large or small depth of field or catch some fast action etc. This gave him a "feel" for taking photographs. I can't think of a better word for it, it comes with experience. All the best photographers on this forum have this "feel" and I can't emphasise enough how important it is to anyone taking photographs, and this applies to digital just as much as film.

Automatic cameras make all the decisions if you let them, and this makes it much harder to gain the experience. Even if you start out with a simple manual camera with a light meter, like a Spotmatic, there is a temptation to accept the camera's judgement and just match the needle or LEDs without thinking about the actual lens and shutter settings.

So my advice would be to start off with a completely basic camera with no batteries and no built-in meter, and later when you're ready you can move on up the ladder if you want to. This almost certainly means an M42 camera like a Praktica L, Zenit B or one of the pre-Spotmatic Pentax cameras (e.g. SL). You could jump the bottom step if you like and get a camera with a mechanical shutter, where the battery only powers the lightmeter (for instance the Praktic LTL, Zenit E or Pentax Spotmatic SP or SPII), and leave the battery out to disable the meter.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
Hi jessup. My feeling is it would make you a much better photographer if you start at the bottom of the ladder of technical advancement, and climb up it later when you're ready.

The first 35mm SLR cameras were completely manual. Besides manually focussing, the photographer had to decide and set the lens aperture and the shutter speed himself, depending on the available light, the film speed, whether he needed a large or small depth of field or catch some fast action etc. This gave him a "feel" for taking photographs. I can't think of a better word for it, it comes with experience. All the best photographers on this forum have this "feel" and I can't emphasise enough how important it is to anyone taking photographs, and this applies to digital just as much as film.

Automatic cameras make all the decisions if you let them, and this makes it much harder to gain the experience. Even if you start out with a simple manual camera with a light meter, like a Spotmatic, there is a temptation to accept the camera's judgement and just match the needle or LEDs without thinking about the actual lens and shutter settings.

So my advice would be to start off with a completely basic camera with no batteries and no built-in meter, and later when you're ready you can move on up the ladder if you want to. This almost certainly means an M42 camera like a Praktica L, Zenit B or one of the pre-Spotmatic Pentax cameras (e.g. SL). You could jump the bottom step if you like and get a camera with a mechanical shutter, where the battery only powers the lightmeter (for instance the Praktic LTL, Zenit E or Pentax Spotmatic SP or SPII), and leave the battery out to disable the meter.


Fully agree with Peter's recommendation!

Regards,

Jes.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
My feeling is it would make you a much better photographer if you start at the bottom of the ladder of technical advancement, and climb up it later when you're ready.


Words of wisdom, but so true.

Despite liking some auto functions, i have much more pleasure to meter manually via a extern spotmeter, and have no indications whatsoever on the viewfinder. That's why i have Praktica m42's bodies : just the essential stuff.

hey by the way i won a LB2 today on ebay ! with metering on camera, how impatient i am ! price 6£ Cool


PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:

So my advice would be to start off with a completely basic camera with no batteries and no built-in meter, and later when you're ready you can move on up the ladder if you want to. This almost certainly means an M42 camera like a Praktica L, Zenit B or one of the pre-Spotmatic Pentax cameras (e.g. SL). You could jump the bottom step if you like and get a camera with a mechanical shutter, where the battery only powers the lightmeter (for instance the Praktic LTL, Zenit E or Pentax Spotmatic SP or SPII), and leave the battery out to disable the meter.

Yeah, I can agree with this. I like the idea of getting a body that has internal metering but will operate without having to use it (by taking the battery out as you say).

Thanks again for the responses. Honestly, it's difficult for me to tell exactly what I want. I think, in the end, I'll just have to try more and varied types of camera bodies on the way to figuring out what my photographic needs are (in reference to the photographs and my curiosity or desire to experiment). Very rarely do I use a shutter speed over 500. So this isn't really a concern of mine with older cameras. Like I said above, it would be nice to have a choice on whether to employ an internal light meter but I'm open to having one fully mechanical with no light meter. I like the idea of getting something with less electronics that could go wrong. Whatever I get, i'll continue to use an eos as a counterpoint so I'll have other capabilities.

Some of the cameras I've looked at over the past few days: Zenit B, E(M), D; Praktica IV, LTL, Nova series; Yashica TL Electro; Spotmatic 500, S1a, Pentax SL; Olympus OM-1; Mamiya Sekor 1000DTL and I've been interested in getting a rangefinder which has me eying the Yashica Electro 35 GSN or GX. Now, several of these are certainly the antithesis of the qualities I was referring to in the previous paragraph - sure. But we'll see what happens; I'm keeping an open mind.


PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hers's a nice basic rig that can be had fairly cheap on the bay... Very Happy



PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, I'm starting with a Praktica LTL and we'll see where I go from there. Third manual.. woo hoo.. Laughing Thanks Shrek! Now for getting a lens...
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