Home

Please support mflenses.com if you need any graphic related work order it from us, click on above banner to order!
SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

CZY Sonnar 2.8/180 ?
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Home   Manual Focus Lenses
View previous topic :: View next topic  


PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:32 am    Post subject: CZY Sonnar 2.8/180 ? Reply with quote
One week ago I had been offered the lens, which I refused to bay for $250. Mainly because it was of “zebra” design, which I suspected shouldn’t be of the MC coating. The complete set looks exactly as on this photo – completely new, with the dedicated M42 adapter, and even with the native box:




But today I had been suddenly approached by the seller, and literally pressed to take it for $160. Which I was not able to resist. Exploring it later at home I discovered that the coating is not so bad, however I am not certain that it might be the MC. Then I also discovered that it is marked differently then common Sonnars of that type would be – S 2.8 f=180 aus JENA. And same with the label on the box:



As the dedicated M42 adapter functions I was able to discover myself, more or less. The lever for closing of the diaphragm is also well-known for me. But for what is the second lever, which is located closer to the diaphragm ring?



I am little puzzled concerning it’s function. Does anybody have some ideas for what it might be? Question


PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
A/M lock pin?

(Takumar style)


PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sonnar and Zeiss were trademarks in West Germany, so the Carl Zeiss Jena lenses (from the East) were re-branded Aus Jena for export units. Myth has it that these export versions are of better quality than the local, regular branded ones, since they kept the good ones to compete in western markets. I have never seen a real test of that assumption.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kansalliskala wrote:
A/M lock pin?

(Takumar style)


Oh, well - I discovered what it is! Happy Cat

It is locking device for the revolving ring with a tripod bush!

Last edited by LittleAlex on Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:01 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Zamo wrote:
Myth has it that these export versions are of better quality than the local, regular branded ones, since they kept the good ones to compete in western markets.


It is not a myth. For the production facilities of the communistic countries it used to be more or less common practice. When I had been employed, in my youthhood, at the government factory, which produced the metering appliances for the industrial equipment, time from time there was the sudden command "the tropical variant!!!" (which meant the export devices), and immediately all the workers upon the conveyer had to be transmitted to the strong attention and carefulness, and the strong quality control should be applied to the each item, leaving the conveyer.

Zamo wrote:
I have never seen a real test of that assumption.


I did in my practice. Photographers in the USSR really raved for the cameras and lenses with the inscription in english language, and marked with "Made in USSR".

Anyway, I am very curious to try the lens for portraits with my Phase One 645DF+. However, the outdoor weather have been recently very bad for photographing.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: CZY Sonnar 2.8/180 ? Reply with quote
LittleAlex wrote:

I am little puzzled concerning it’s function. Does anybody have some ideas for what it might be? Question


Congratulations, since You've obtained a rare version of this wonderfull lens, which is also compatible with the high end DDR Pentacon Super cameras. This additional pin should transfer the aperture selection to the camera. You may have also a special Pentacon Super dedicated P-Six --> P-Super adapter with two pins as well. Take a look here (scroll down):

https://www.dresdner-kameras.de/pentacon_super/pentacon_super.html

Regards Maksim


PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LittleAlex wrote:
Zamo wrote:
Myth has it that these export versions are of better quality than the local, regular branded ones, since they kept the good ones to compete in western markets.


It is not a myth. For the production facilities of the communistic countries it used to be more or less common practice. When I had been employed, in my youthhood, at the government factory, which produced the metering appliances for the industrial equipment, time from time there was the sudden command "the tropical variant!!!" (which meant the export devices), and immediately all the workers upon the conveyer had to be transmitted to the strong attention and carefulness, and the strong quality control should be applied to the each item, leaving the conveyer.

Zamo wrote:
I have never seen a real test of that assumption.


I did in my practice. Photographers in the USSR really raved for the cameras and lenses with the inscription in english language, and marked with "Made in USSR".

Anyway, I am very curious to try the lens for portraits with my Phase One 645DF+. However, the outdoor weather have been recently very bad for photographing.


Interesting, I never knew about that


PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LittleAlex wrote:
Zamo wrote:
Myth has it that these export versions are of better quality than the local, regular branded ones, since they kept the good ones to compete in western markets.


It is not a myth. For the production facilities of the communistic countries it used to be more or less common practice. When I had been employed, in my youthhood, at the government factory, which produced the metering appliances for the industrial equipment, time from time there was the sudden command "the tropical variant!!!" (which meant the export devices), and immediately all the workers upon the conveyer had to be transmitted to the strong attention and carefulness, and the strong quality control should be applied to the each item, leaving the conveyer.


Interesting information - thank you for sharing that story!

I myself have only the earlier Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 2.8/180mm for 35mm cameras (mine is Exakta, reversibly converted to Sony A-mount) which has a slightly different optical computation (your version was optimized for 6x6). I really like the rendition of my Olympia Sonnar, especially wide open and for b/w images. In addition I have also a Sonnar 4/300mm which is a beast, however optically it can't compete with the 180mm Olympia Sonnar (too much CAs).

Here the are:


Serials indicate my 4/300mm was made around 1949, and the 2.8/180mm around 1956.

S


PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've recently got almost the same (only the focus ring is slightly different -bakelite I guess-) and I am really happy with it; a bit heavy though, but it.s normal


PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LittleAlex wrote:
Zamo wrote:
Myth has it that these export versions are of better quality than the local, regular branded ones, since they kept the good ones to compete in western markets.


It is not a myth. For the production facilities of the communistic countries it used to be more or less common practice. When I had been employed, in my youthhood, at the government factory, which produced the metering appliances for the industrial equipment, time from time there was the sudden command "the tropical variant!!!" (which meant the export devices), and immediately all the workers upon the conveyer had to be transmitted to the strong attention and carefulness, and the strong quality control should be applied to the each item, leaving the conveyer.

Zamo wrote:
I have never seen a real test of that assumption.


I did in my practice. Photographers in the USSR really raved for the cameras and lenses with the inscription in english language, and marked with "Made in USSR".

Anyway, I am very curious to try the lens for portraits with my Phase One 645DF+. However, the outdoor weather have been recently very bad for photographing.


Great to know, thanks for sharing!


PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:00 pm    Post subject: Re: CZY Sonnar 2.8/180 ? Reply with quote
Max78 wrote:
You may have also a special Pentacon Super dedicated P-Six --> P-Super adapter with two pins as well.


Oh well, it is already present in the set. Look the picture at the beginning Wink


PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:


I myself have only the earlier Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 2.8/180mm for 35mm cameras (mine is Exakta, reversibly converted to Sony A-mount) which has a slightly different optical computation (your version was optimized for 6x6).



For 35mm I already have tons of 200mm lenses. Among which are real jewels, as - for example CONTAX Carl Zeiss 200mm f/4 Tele-Tessar T* C/Y (refurbished for Nikon bayonet), or Vivitar Series 1 200mm F3.0 (Konica AR), or Nikon 200mm f/4 Micro-Nikkor Ai. So, I obtained it mostly with my Phase One 645DF+ in the mind, as the portrait lens for the digital Medium Format.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
LittleAlex wrote:
stevemark wrote:


I myself have only the earlier Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 2.8/180mm for 35mm cameras


...
So, I obtained it mostly with my Phase One 645DF+ in the mind, as the portrait lens for the digital Medium Format.


Ouch ... now that you say it I just remembered that I have the 6x6 version as well (not the same as yours though, mine probably being built around 1963). And yeah, it's even the export version ... "Jena 1Q S 1:2,8 f=180"! Focus is pretty stiff though, it has some fungus just behind the front lens, and there's fogging too. Otherwise it's OK (aperture!), but it would need a careful cleaning and re-lubing. And the Pentacon Six that came with it isn't functional either ... so I put all that stuff (including a second Pentacon Six II and a Bm 1:2.8 f=80mm) somewhere on a shelf and forgot about it ... Wink

S


PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:

And the Pentacon Six that came with it isn't functional either


I owned once the Pentacon Six, but parted with it very quickly. Only left from it the Biometar 2.8/80 MC, which really is the very exceptional lens. But for body I prefer Kiev 60, which was produced at 1993, when the factory “Arsenal” considerably raised the quality controls. Because Pentacon Six, in relation to Kiev, for my opinion is only attractively looking junk. In any aspect.

But after I obtained the Mamiya 465, which is able to accept the lenses for Pentacon Six bayonet, I started rarely to use the Kiev.

Last edited by LittleAlex on Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:15 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The first "dirty" test:

Phase One 645DF+ f/2.8 1/250 s; ISO 100



Phase One 645DF+ f/8.0 1/4000 s; ISO 100



Phase One 645DF+ f/2.8 1/500 s; ISO 100



Phase One 645DF+ 1/90 s; ISO 100



PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1 Like 1 small

Pretty good at wide open!


PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:


Pretty good at wide open!


Yah - to say sincerely my expectations from it had been much more humble. It really works well with the colors, however it evidently isn't the MC version. And the resolving power is quite amazing. Don't believe even Zeiss-Opton Sonnar would be much better.

And the classical Sonnar bokeh of course!


PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LittleAlex wrote:
calvin83 wrote:


Pretty good at wide open!


Yah - to say sincerely my expectations from it had been much more humble. It really works well with the colors, however it evidently isn't the MC version. And the resolving power is quite amazing. Don't believe even Zeiss-Opton Sonnar would be much better.

And the classical Sonnar bokeh of course!


I got my first sample of the Olympia Sonnar in 2010, to write an article about the Ludwig Bertele and his Sonnars in the Sony Fotospiegel. Back then, most Sony/Minolta SLR users were reluctant to invest in a 24 MP FF SLR (which was 3000 - 4000 CHF back then) since they thought that ordinary lenses wouldn't be useful on such a "high res" camera. We therefore made a series of articles in the Sony Fotospiegel comparing old lenses and new glass on the Sony A900 (24 MP FF). Most Minolta AF lenses were pretty good on 24 MP FF, but of course the Zeiss Tessars were a bit overstretched. The prewar 4/13.5 cm and the 1949 2.8/180 mm Sonnars were surprisingly useable, though ...

I suspect your Sonnar 2.8/180mm "6x6" to be very nice for b/w portraits. 22 MP medium format probably is the sweet spot for that lens if used wide open ...

S


PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:

I suspect your Sonnar 2.8/180mm "6x6" to be very nice for b/w portraits.


Have to try. Need yet to find the worthy girl for that task.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The first try:

Phase One 645DF+ with the newly obtained V-Grip Air Vertical Grip

http://forum.mflenses.com/phase-one-v-grip-air-vertical-grip-t84916.html

F/2.8 1/20 s; ISO 400



PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
do you know if elements from mc version would fit in different sonnar model?


PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
do you know if elements from mc version would fit other model of same sonnar?


PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:
if elements from mc version would fit other model of same sonnar?


No idea at all. But I know for certain, that the lenses at the factory are carefully chosen, and adjusted between itself. And so - if you would try to transmit mechanically lenses from the one similar object-glass to the other, it might be complete disaster at the end.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
According to Marco Kröger there are only two computations of the Olympia Sonnar 2.8/180mm, the original pre-war (1936) by Ludwig Bertele and a later (1959) re-computation optimized for 6x6cm:

https://zeissikonveb.de/start/objektive/wechselobjektive1950er/carl-zeiss-jena/olympic-sonnar.html

S


PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LittleAlex wrote:
stevemark wrote:


But after I obtained the Mamiya 465, which is able to accept the lenses for Pentacon Six bayonet, I started rarely to use the Kiev.


I have a lot of Mamiya 645 lenses and other lenses adapted to Mamiya 645 but don't own a Mamiya camera. I always thought P6/Kiev 60 should be better due to them not having film flattness issues. But now you have me thinking about getting a Mamiya body.
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Home   Manual Focus Lenses
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2