CZJ Sonnar 200 2.8

Sonnigen · Joined: 29 Apr 2013 Posts: 3 Location: Russia

Hello, guys!
I have CZJ Sonnar 2.8/200 MC electric.
And unhappily i have discovered a serious problem with this wonderful Carl Zeiss Jena lens.
It came to me 4 months ago, at the same time i got an adapter M42-Canon EOS for it.
It was wonderful while taking great shots of the city life, people, my cat indoors - but all of these I have taken at the medium focusing ranges, containing no meaningful objects afar off.
Finally, I decided to go onward, and took it with me on the field nearby to test infinity.
I spent 3 hours trying to get anything far than 50 meters unblurred, it was very dissapointing!
When i set the focus ring mark to "infinity", it didn't behave so.
Everything farther 100 meters completely out of focus.
But looked like there didn't suffice about 3-5 degrees when turning the focus ring to the limit.
(i hasn't even reached infinity, not misssed it!)

I understood, that infinity gain in the optical scheme means the position of the closest distance to sensor/film.

So, as i suppose there may be two problems(as the other distances ride well):

But as i know, the thickness needed is less or equal to 1.5 mm.
As i have two adapters, i measured their thickness with micrometer and they are 1.38 mm(for pixco) and 1.41 mm(for russian analogue). So that values are ok. I am not able to cut them to 1mm, because i will surely warp its surface too much.

2) the objectiv has a kind of unknown incompatibility with my canon 550d, and needs infinity fixing.

So i decided to disassemble it and look what i can do there.
I did it(ot took about 15min to disassemble and 2 hours to reassemble it back) and understood its construction.
There is a retaining ledge which cause focusing ring to stop as the special screw reaches its borders.
Also it has physical limit of turning freedom which is after "m" mark.
But for me it was enough, and i have cut about 1-1.5cm from the appropriate side of ledge, so i can turn the focusing ring farther (initially it reached its limit at the middle of infininity mark), till the physical limit.
It much helped, and i can focus now farther, about 200-250 meters; it has become pretty good (comparing to the initial), but not enough, and now i have no idea how to get it.

So i ask for any advise, this is the lens i like too much to forget. Crying or Very sad

Has anyone tested the infinity on this lens?
Is it focusing to infinity on your camera(farther than 300 meters off) without any fixings like mine?
If so, what is the label on the focus ring where you reach infinity?
Can someone check it on the crop camera like mine or any M42 camera (as i don't have one)?

For example, my sigma 70-200 with stab is able to focus the same objects normally, though resolution quality when->200mm decreases.
And this is normal for sigma, because it is zoom-lens.
At close distances (like the wall of house nearby) sonnar is surely better than sigma at 200mm, due to its resolution, picture, and ability of precise focusing in large interval.

there are some examples
"slightly fixed" means that first time i decided to cut off not too much of the ledge(after that i have cutted four times more)

1)the picture, that spurred me to make something with the lens

After some slight corrections it remained nearly the same.

That is how similar location looks like with sigma 70-200 (not at the same time, not 200mm but difference is obvious)

RSalles · Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:06 am Post subject:

About the image, it's a counter-spam measure of the forum as you're new. Try to re-send the images again.
About the lens: i had a problem nearby the same with a lens i bought to "fix" and i couldn't. The price was low, the model was the CZJ Sonnar 3.5/135 and it's parts remains dismantled in a box for spares of the other i have in mint condition.
If i can say something to you is to send the lens to a very well known repair shop for fixing. We have forum users from Russia - it seems you're there now - but it can also be fixed abroad.

Wellcome,

Renato

Sonnigen · Joined: 29 Apr 2013 Posts: 3 Location: Russia

Thank you for your answer, Renato.

(This CZJ is too rare and expensive in Russia, condition usually less than medium due to amount of owners)

This lens has a condition of new, and i think i succeded fixing it (at the third try), it keeps full functionality after reassembling.
I didn't touch the lens block, and there is no marks that somebody did this before me.
Helikoid is hard to install back, but there exists only one correct position, the others are incorrect.

So, the thing is that before i have started using manual optics, i had thought that no corrections had needed for normal work of most of lenses with canon cameras.
I hope the last my fixing is sufficient (i can not check if so right now, because of the night time ), but i used to think(while reading this forum) that nobody faced such a problem with infinity (maybe nobody needed?).
If my fix fails too, then i will try to find local repair shops.

But i also like to know, if anybody used this lens with infinity.

RSalles · Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:45 am Post subject:

There is no reason to this lens not achieve infinity focus as it was made for the Pentacon VI and M42 thread mount. The gap between registry distances of M42XEF can be solved by a current M42-EOS adapter, a common an easy to find adapter type.
I see 10 X more CZJ Sonnar 2.8/180 lens at ebay than 2.8/200. It's a lens that's not trivial to find a good copy. If you can make a good repair and fix the issue, so go ahead. This lens worth it.

Cheers,

Renato

Gonzoo · Joined: 29 Mar 2010 Posts: 231

Not reaching infinity is a common issue when helicoid threads are not aligned properly. I found that some Zeiss lens barrels/helicoids feature "V" or "W" shaped marks which might help in correct alignment. If there are no helping marks then you've to fall back to "trial and error" method, there aren't that many combinations.

Sonnigen · Joined: 29 Apr 2013 Posts: 3 Location: Russia

Luckily the last fixing resulted to reaching infinity.

Look which position it matches really:
1)that is initial point of infinity.

2)that is real place of infinity.

Gonzoo, that means that this lens had incorrect position set for helikoid before me.
When to understand if the helikoid position is correct?

Certainly i had to count the amount of turns(4.3-4.5) of the lid when disassembling, then i had to combine 2 slots with 2 pins after 4.5 turns of the lid when reassembling. And then after some more turns of lid and ring together, it would reach stopper after infinity mark, nearly the end of the scale.

As there is no rules to do this, excepting "trial and error" method i used, that has only one right combination.

I think this happens when:
1) at infinity mark the gap between focusing ring and the lid is minimal(it was and is about 0.5 millimeter)
2) at the minimal focus distance(2.2m) this gap should't be more than two millimeters.
3) while focusing, ring should turn with minimal exertion
4) while focusing, ring must cover all the interval from minimal to infinity.
5) it shouldnt go farther after nearly reaching the end of thread for the helikoid, the ring shouldn't go without a thread
This situation i mean "right".

As i remember, there were some marks you described (v), but i wasn' able to understand its meaning.
There was no problem with reassembling the lens(first time it took much time, but then i did it many times), but i were searching for the cause.
And my "fixing" was cutting stopper ledge from one side in order to let the ring go farther.
Thank you for your advise)
So, i have overcome this problem, but is it usual situation for manual optics for M42?

Gonzoo · Joined: 29 Mar 2010 Posts: 231

Glad to hear that you fixed it. Maybe the lens was opened before or faulty after production.

If there were no adjustments to infinity focus, there is only one correct position for the helicoid. If you do "trial and error", you just turn the helicoid thread one "click" further and then reassemble the lens to check whether infinity is reached or not. If not, disassemble, turn on click further, reassemble and so on. Usually you see if you are getting closer to infinity focus or not.

This process might be tiresome, but I prefer it this way before considering non-reversal operations.

Srdjan · Joined: 11 Apr 2012 Posts: 316 Location: Nis

Sonnigen if you now reach infinity and miss it just for so small that mean that you miss helicoid thread for same distance (probably one or two steps 5mm?). How to fix this - go to dissemble again and most important mark the position when these two parts separate (on both of them). If you now go more that infinity means that you have to screw it earlier that it is in marked position. Distance you see on you distance scale (about 5mm I see on picture) earlier, an on the helicoid thread it is firs or second position earlier.