can you help my viewfinder problem?

rbelyell · Expire: 2014-01-31

yesterday was a pretty cool day for me as i 'scored' an old kodak 6x12 folding camera with a 5 inch 7.7-32 kodak anastigmat lens. i have wanted a 6x12 for a LONG time, but didnt want to spend close to $1000 on a peripheral piece of equipment. my understanding is the lens translates to about 40mm in 35mm terms.

now the lens seems to protrude pretty far from the body, and the VF is a small cube of glass attached to the end of the bellows near the lens. unlike most other folders, there is no framing mechanism at all on the top of the camera. for reasons that are not important, i want to shoot this handheld and i dont think its practical to do that without a body mounted framing mechanism.

so my question to you all, how do i go about making a rudimentary framing device that would be reasonably accurate amd attacheable to the top of the camera?

Nesster · Expire: 2014-02-20

First off, you can use the nose mounted gizmo holding the camera to your belly and looking down. This can actually be more stable than holding it to your head.

As far as a built in finder, you can go 'sports', i.e. two wire frames, or you can look to attach a glass auxiliary finder to the camera. The tricky part will be to find one that shows approximately what the camera sees. Maybe, find an auxiliary wide angle finder on ebay (or if you can remove the one from the bushman easily and reversibly, try that), and compare its view with what you see on a ground glass at the film plane. Ideally the finder should show more and you can always mask it down to what the camera sees.

Otherwise, I'm curious to see what others with better/more experience suggest.

rbelyell · Expire: 2014-01-31

thank you so much for your reply and good suggestions. however i this very minute received email from seller refunding my money. he claims there was an issue with closing the film door that he tried to fix for a couple of hours, became frustrated and careless and broke the entire camera. i cant beieve it, this is the first reasonably priced 6x12 ive come across in 2 years of looking, plus it was a real 1930s american kodak antique, and now its gone! damn!

ludoo · Expire: 2011-12-05

From what I read about wireframe (or "sports") finders in the past, you could make yourself one pretty easily.

The front wireframe should have the same proportions as your film. The back eyepiece should be put at a distance equivalent to the focal length of your lens, scaled down (or up) to match the dimensions you used for the front wireframe.

The if it works it's just a matter of finding a way to keep the two frames together at the right distance, and fixing them to the camera. You can have a look at the sports finders on old 9x12 cameras for inspiration.

For the eyepiece, anything would do but a cheap universal rubber eyepiece for a dslr would probably be easy to source and comfortable.

ludoo · Expire: 2011-12-05

Ops, read you last post: try to get it for peanuts if it's broken, if nothing else you can still use the lens/shutter/bellows.

Nesster · Expire: 2014-02-20

Too bad about the camera. The nice thing about the bay is that sooner or later another one will show up.

Meanwhile, your post got me to search for 'sports finder' over there, and intriguingly, though there are plenty of high dollar items, there are quite a few reasonably priced ones too. The situation for auxiliary glass finders is a bit tighter - with these, going for an aux tele / wide lens set intended for a fixed lens rf camera can yield a nifty little tele-wide finder in the bargain.

rbelyell · Expire: 2014-01-31

really good thought, thanks. i will contact seller...

luisalegria · Expire: 2018-01-18

Sounds like someone modified a Kodak 3A to do 6x12
This is fairly easy to do.

There were no "native" 6x12 format cameras back then except for some rare, collectible oddball panoramic types - i.e., expensive.

The trick is to find a Kodak 3A without light leaks.

rbelyell · Expire: 2014-01-31

luis, here it is, tell me what you think it is:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Wooden-Folding-8x10-inch-Camera-Const-RS-/250916544158

luisalegria · Expire: 2018-01-18

Well, its not a Kodak, its a British Ensign.

The vendors description is wrong, its not a rangefinder camera at all. It does unit focus on a scale like the typical folder of the day.

Its certainly not an 8x10 inch camera, as thats not the format its got.

This is not I believe a 120 camera either. Ensign 2 1/2 is the equivalent of Kodak 116 film - somewhat wider than 120. 120 spools won't fit unless some modifications are made.

This camera format is similar to the long line of Kodak 1A folders - In between the 120 film No. 1's and the postcard-format 3A's.

I read the lens specs as f 7.7 5 inch focus - i.e., the lens focal length is 5 inches or 127mm. If the lens is a simple Cooke triplet as this Aldis lens probably is, this implies a designed coverage for 116 also. The typical 116 Kodak camera shot 2.5x4.25 inch frames, and this one looks like that. 4.25 inch is 108mm.

rbelyell · Expire: 2014-01-31

thanks

Nesster · Expire: 2014-02-20

I agree. The~127mm lens was standard on 116 rollfilm cameras... as here, a No 2a Kodak Hawkeye Special :

No. 2A Folding Hawk-Eye Special, Eastman Kodak. 1929-1933 by Nesster, on Flickr

Kodak's 1 / 1a / 2 / 2a are so confusing, and throw in some 1C and so on, one has to be extra careful if one wants the 120 film ones.

luisalegria · Expire: 2018-01-18

Thanks Jussi, it is confusing. There is also the switch between film formats in the 1930's - 120 to 620, 116 to 616, etc. And every maker had their own names for common film sizes.

I suggest that a good base for a 6x12 format would be a great big old Kodak 3A. The old postcard format was 3 1/4x5 1/2 - almost 14 cm

The lenses are about 170mm.

The 3A's can be had fairly cheap. I see plenty going for $10-20

These can be converted fairly easily. You will have to make your own spool holders for 120, and either replace the wind shaft or extend it to reach the smaller spools. Thats not very hard either. For best results I recommend putting in black plastic strips to mask the film gate to the new format and support the edges of the 120 film, or it will probably curl too much.

One problem with the 1A's and 3A's is that they had no pressure plates. I guess the big film was not as unmanageable as 120. There are several ways to make a pressure plate out of metal or plastic and its easy enough to mount with glue and foam.

You could block off the old red window and drill a new one for 120. Maybe reuse the old red window in a new place. Some people prefer getting the Autographic version of the 3A's, as the Autographic opening can be used as a red window.

I have several 3A's waiting till I get off my bottom and try this conversion. There are several articles on the internet by people who have done this conversion.

Nesster · Expire: 2014-02-20

A project I'll look to do sometime next year is to take that 2A Hawkeye and adapt 120 film in it. Should result in a quasi-panoramic view... along these lines

http://mconnealy.com/vintagecameras/kodak1a/index.html
http://mconnealy.com/vintagecameras/1apocket/index.html

rbelyell · Expire: 2014-01-31

wow, thanks luis. maybe i am better off he broke it?!

ok what do you guys think of this idea: i buy a cheap holga 6x12 to use as a film back. then i buy a 4x5 lens/shutter combo, something like a kodak 127 or a schneider 135. then i replace crappy holga lens with my nice 4x5 lens?

in order to focus without a helicoid i would have to figure out how to mount it far enough from the film plane to hyperfocus at say F16 for really good DOF. only problem i see is i wouldnt know how to figure out the spacing/mounting issues--any thoughts?

Nesster · Expire: 2014-02-20

luisalegria · Expire: 2018-01-18

It should be easy enough to modify the 6x12 Holga pinhole camera.

Just cut out the square section in front and fabricate a wooden box to go in place of it.

You could even put in a simple focusing mechanism - make a smaller wooden box to fit inside and slide in the bigger box. Adjust focus using a groundglass over the Holga film gate. When its good screw the boxes together.

If you want to shoot at f/16 you could use any decent 135mm lens. That should cover 6x12

127mm Kodak and Wollensak Tessar-type lenses for Speed Graphics and the like are good, and the shutters they are in are even better, but they go for $50+

They probably will barely cover 6x12.

If you want a 127mm-130mm lens, try take one from a later a Kodak 616 folder - like these - they go for cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Kodak-Senior-Six-16-Folding-Camera-/200682731787?pt=US_Vintage_Cameras&hash=item2eb99f790b

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Kodak-No-1-Diomatic-Folding-Camera-Bellows-/230710831096?pt=US_Vintage_Cameras&hash=item35b76fe7f8

The lens is a triplet but a very good one. And because they have front cell focusing - well, you have your focusing mechanism right there ! Just mount them at infinity.

luisalegria · Expire: 2018-01-18

A sucecssful 6x12 conversion of a Kodak 3A special -

http://www.flickr.com/photos/photoyann10/sets/72157626696729986/

6x14 on another style of the 3A

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~paulewins/resources/3a_panoramic.htm