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Best faster than f4 200mm lens?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
No chance of me being able to afford any Leica lenses I'm afraid.

Perhaps I can go the route of a MF lens, anyone got any recommendations?


For the money, the Nikkor 200/4 AIS can't be beat (~US$175). An under-appreciated compact classic; sharp and contrasty even at f/4. Pretty nice bokeh too. The Nikkor 180/2.8 ED AIS, despite its weakness under-correcting CA (seemingly more pronounced on digital sensors), is an incredibly sharp albeit heavy optic with a wonderful bokeh wide-open and is worthy of consideration. I've had one for 15 years and it's a breeze to focus. I've tended to use it for B&W images since getting a D700 becaue of the CA. Likewise well-priced at ~US$350.

Another great one at that FL range is the Voigtländer 4/180 APO. Well-corrected for CA compared to the Nikkor 180 (though imperfectly so) and small with the added advantage of close focus, unlike the Leica 180 Telyt APO. I've found it a bit tricky focusing correctly at or near infinity because it's optimized for near objects. Depending on the mount, goes for between $800-1300 used (Nikon AIS at the high end, M42 and Pentax toward the low).


PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
So, you want a cheap, light, fast lens with no CA? Good luck finding that. Laughing

I've a Chinon 200mm F3.5. It's good at 5.6 on, acceptable wide, but I'd say the Pentacon is a better lens. The Chinon is slightly smaller and lighter though and better saturated. i never use it now, so I'd consider selling it if you're interested.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
No chance of me being able to afford any Leica lenses I'm afraid.

Perhaps I can go the route of a MF lens, anyone got any recommendations?

Cheap fast lens ~200mm without CA is no way. It's just physics. Without special glass you can't make CA free fast lens. And those lenses was pricey when new and even today prices reflect this.
Nikon 2.8/180 ED will be probably cheapest option. Then Elmarit-R 2.8/180 second version with very low CA and you can buy it between 300-500€.

Then Canon EF L 4/70-200. Or Sigma/Tamron 2.8/70-200 modern zooms, which you can get used around 400€. Then Canon EF L 2.8/200.

Between MF lenses, there is Mamiya 2.8/200 APO. But not much of them is for sale and good luck to find it under 700€. Click here to see on Ebay.de


PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
no one use the Rokkor 200/2.8, I've been keeping an eye out for one at a reasonable price


PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
martinsmith99 wrote:
So, you want a cheap, light, fast lens with no CA? Good luck finding that. Laughing

I've a Chinon 200mm F3.5. It's good at 5.6 on, acceptable wide, but I'd say the Pentacon is a better lens. The Chinon is slightly smaller and lighter though and better saturated. i never use it now, so I'd consider selling it if you're interested.


Let me explain my train of thought:

I have tried 7 or 8 200mm lenses, the Pentacon is the best of those I have, it 's f4 and useable wide open but is better at 5.6 and below. I find it almost unuseable with my NEX however as it's so long and heavy that even on a tripod I get camera shake unless I pump up the ISO and use fast shutter speeds.

I discounted the possibility of a cheap lens being better than the Pentacon, I concluded that the Soligor 3.5/200 would be the best of the cheap contenders. I have one, full of dirt and fungus and without a mount, it's a big heavy thing with excellent build quality, I'm not interested in buying a working one as I don't see it as an improvement on the Pentacon, just an alternative.

The Ross Xpress 8.5 inch is a great lens, sharp wide open, no CA, great colours, good contrast, it's a bit unwieldy though, long and with all the weight at the front, I fin it fine to use with my EOS 10D but with my NEX it's a PITA, I've had to fit a tripod mount collar to it to be able to use it with my NEX as handheld, it's too much of a PITA.

So what I wanted to know was basically, of all the other 4/200 and 3.5/200 lenses out there like the Nikkor for instance, were any of them better than the Pentacon in IQ and had better handling characteristcs in terms of size and weight? The older Nikkor is long and heavy, more so than the Pentacon so I had kind of rules that one out.

As for zooms, I have some good ones - Rolleinar 4/80-200, Vivitar S1 3.5/70-210 (too much CA, not that sharp imho, bad copy?) but both of those are big heavy things. I do have the small, compact, light Tokina SD 70-210.

So I guess the best way to sum it up is I'm looking for an alternative to the Pentacon and Ross that is smaller, shorter, lighter and has IQ at least as good, I never thought such a thing would be cheap. When I said I wanted it to be faster than f4, I should have said 'f4 or faster' as I was just wanting to avoid going for a slower lens than what I already have, an f4 or f3.5 or f3.3 would be fine, although an f2.8 would be great i know they are big, heavy and expensive. No-one has mentioned the Konica Hexanon or Hexar 200s, how good are those?

I hate CA, to me it ruins images, I find it pretty much impossible to remove in PP and whenever I see colour fringing in my images I discard them as to my eyes it looks terrible.

I wonder why the Ross has no CA? Maybe it has some Lanthanum or other radioactive elements?

I hope that makes things a little clearer.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ian, there is a Rokkor F2.8 on the bay at the moment which has been converted to Canon mount so no good to me but you use Canon I think ??


PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That would interest me, could you post a link please?


PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
No problem, looks in very nice condition Click here to see on Ebay


PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Same lens were for sale on the local forum.
This guy just resells for a high price, apart from this he is OK as a seller i have sold one lens to him also.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm sorry to disappoint, but you will not find a 200mm lens with all the characteristics you are looking for. The Ross is not a normal SLR lens, so doesn't count. The only non-apo (almost) CA free lens I've come across offering 200mm is the Vario-Sonnar 100-300mm, but you will need around £700.00 for one of those. The Canon 70-300mm IS (non-L) version is fairly CA free as well, but produces dull images IMO.

No 200mm lens is going to feel particularly balanced on the Nex either, as the body is too small and light.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks ofr the link, that's a bit outside my budget sadly, but one day I might grab one of those Rokkors.

I've seen a Konica Hexar 200mm and might grab that after seeing Jesito's test of his, as he says, if the Hexar is so good, the Hexanon 200 must be really outstanding.

Not disappointed Graham, thanks for the info.

The NEX is not the camera for tele shooting, I have found that you have to mount the camera/lens combo on a tripod with a tripod ring on the lens otherwise you get camera shake, got very frustrated trying to shoot with my Pentacon 4/200 on the NEX on a tripod, so I ordered a tripod ring from dealextreme, it never arrived so have to chase that up.

This was just about the only shot that wasn't ruined my camera shake last time I used my Pentacon on my NEX and this was on a tripod with 1/250 shutter speed.



Why is it so hard to find a 200 with no CA? My Tair-3C 300mm has virtually no CA same as the Ross and my other Ross Xpress 4/127mm, perhaps it is just cost prohibitive to make CA-less lenses?

Apart from Sigma, there doesn't seem to be many APO lenses on the market that aren't really expensive, I told myself I would never buy another Sigma after having some really awful Sigmas, but now I'm thinking some of the APO Sigma zooms might be worth looking at, just hope they are better built than the other Sigmas I've owned that were plastic junk.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've got the Minolta 200.2.8 Apo AF, considered to be one of the finest lenses they ever produced and even that suffers wide open.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting, that 99p I paid for the Ross 240mm has turned out to be a real bargain then, looks like I'll have to collect and remount some more Ross Xpress lenses.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi Ian
there is a guy selling some 200mm now

He still has some like vivitar in md mount and Sigma XQ in OM mount

http://photo-forum.net/forum/read.php?f=46&i=148641&t=148641&phorum_uriauth=

and translated with google
http://translate.google.bg/translate?sl=bg&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=bg&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fphoto-forum.net%2Fforum%2Fread.php%3Ff%3D46%26i%3D148641%26t%3D148641%26phorum_uriauth%3D

btw prices are in BGN not in EUR as google translates them so divide the price by 2.
If you like something i can send it to you.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Vivitar (Komine) looks good at that price, 32euro ?


PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very interesting.

I was rooting through my lenses and discovered I have a mint Hoya 3.5/200 I forgot all about, need to try that one.

The Komine Vivitar does sound interesting but I am leaning towards a Konica Hexar 200 for 19.99ukp for use on the NEX, will fit in well with my other Hexanons and Jesito's results with it on his NEX were excellent.

I am happy to wait for a while before adding another telephoto. I'm shooting mostly landscapes at the moment and am thinking of picking up a Sigma SD10 I have seen cheap as I would like to try HDR landscapes with a Foveon sensor and the Sigma 12-24 lens so I will probably put my money in that direction and leave another 200mm for later when I can afford a really good one.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ian, have you seen the Tak 200 thread ?


PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tervueren wrote:
Vivitar (Komine) looks good at that price, 32euro ?

yes 32 euro.
is it good?


PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I've seen a Konica Hexar 200mm and might grab that after seeing Jesito's test of his, as he says, if the Hexar is so good, the Hexanon 200 must be really outstanding.
.



Hexanon 200mm f3.5 silver nose in pair with my Carl Zeiss T* Sonnar 180mm f2.8 which is one my best 180mm lens.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, the Tak in that thread looks very good.

Thanks for the info on the Hexanon Attila, sounds like I should look for that one.

I just bought the 4.5/300 Hexanon and 3.2/135 Hexanon as part of a job lot of Konica kit so I definitely want to add the 200mm Hexanon to complete the set.

Check this out for a bargain, can't believe I got this lot so cheap!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270825573856?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A 17mm Tokina too? Great haul!


PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Yes, the Tak in that thread looks very good.

Thanks for the info on the Hexanon Attila, sounds like I should look for that one.

I just bought the 4.5/300 Hexanon and 3.2/135 Hexanon as part of a job lot of Konica kit so I definitely want to add the 200mm Hexanon to complete the set.

Check this out for a bargain, can't believe I got this lot so cheap!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270825573856?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


I saw that listing but forgot all about it !! as you say a very good deal Laughing
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