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Bessa T - em what next?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:49 pm    Post subject: Bessa T - em what next? Reply with quote
I just bought this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/181167665414?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

I am unfamiliar with either RF or M mounts. I have tried to read on this subject and search as much as I can, but I am still hella of confused. I am not sure if M39 M42 and all various M named mounts will work on this. I understand you need to acquire a viewfinder the same as the lens so 35 viewfinder for 35mm lens? Am I correct?

Anyway, my budget is now constrained after spending thousands on lenses for my Nikon. What would you recommend as both "cheap" and good quality lenses and viewfinder for this. Maybe in the future I'll spend $400+ on a Zeiss or Lecia lens for it. However, right now I am looking for recommendation on the first budget lens I can get for it and what viewfinder would work. Just something affordable that gets me shooting with this camera.

Thanks ahead of time for all those who will give me recommendations...


PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
All M mount lenses, regardless of maker, are overpriced in the secondhand market imho. Even the Konica and Minolta ones carry very big premiums.The only ones you will find that are somewhat reasonably priced and the Cosina/Voigtlander ones and some of the less sought after 1950s Leitz like the Elmar 4/90 and Hektor 4/135.

Luckily, however, you can buy very cheap M39-M adapters an this opens up a nice range of very cheap but excellent RF lenses from the former Soviet Union. The Russkies copied the 1930s Zeiss formulas and made them in huge numbers for decades, so they are very easy to find and very cheap for what they are.

Here's a rough breakdown of what there is, in all cases, oldest chromed lenses with a serial starting with a 5 (to denote 1950s) and a red 'P' (looks like an 'n') to denote coating are the best ones to seek out.

Orion-15 6/28 - a bit expensive, but excellent lens, slow but tiny.
Jupiter-3 1.5/50 - copy of the Zeiss Sonnar, a superb lens, not all that cheap but still very good value
Jupiter-8 2/50 - also a Zeiss Sonnar copy, also a superb lens, very common, very cheap, everyone should have one, I have 5 or 6
Jupiter-9 2/85 - another Zeiss Sonnar copy, again superb, a little soft and glowy wide open, closed to f4 it becomes razor sharp, bokeh is smooth and superb
Jupiter-11 4/135 - again, a Sonnar copy, sharp at all apertures, superb smooth bokeh
Jupiter-12 2.8/35 - copy of the Zeiss Biogon, a superb lens, a little soft wide open but close it one stop and it's fantastic
Industar-22 3.5/50 - a copy of the Zeiss Tessar, a superb lens, the barrel is a copy of the Leitz collapsible Elmar, I wouldn't swap my copy for an Elmar, it's razor sharp
Industar-50 3.5/50, two versions, one is collapsible and pretty much identical to the I-22,the other is a rigid 'pancake' type, optics are identical, just different barrel types
Industar-69 2.8/50 - a later Tessar type, same barrel as the J-8
Industar-61 2.8/50 - a later Tessar type, similar barrel to the I-69 and J-8, uses Lanthanum glass, I prefer this to the I-69.

There are more, but those are the common ones. I would recommend buying a J8, J12, J9 and J11, then you have three Sonnars in 50,85 and 135mm and a Biogon in 35mm. That really is all you need, you can add an ultrawide later, the Cosina/Voigtlander Skopar 25mm is a bargain considering how great it is.

Hope that helps. I really love all of my Russian RF glass, I also have several of the original Zeiss lenses they are copied from and still use the Russians alongside the Zeiss because the differenes in quality are very small indeed.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you want to see image samples from any of the Russian RF lenses, I have lots of them I can post, both digital and 35mm film.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
All M mount lenses, regardless of maker, are overpriced in the secondhand market imho. Even the Konica and Minolta ones carry very big premiums.The only ones you will find that are somewhat reasonably priced and the Cosina/Voigtlander ones and some of the less sought after 1950s Leitz like the Elmar 4/90 and Hektor 4/135.

Luckily, however, you can buy very cheap M39-M adapters an this opens up a nice range of very cheap but excellent RF lenses from the former Soviet Union. The Russkies copied the 1930s Zeiss formulas and made them in huge numbers for decades, so they are very easy to find and very cheap for what they are.

Here's a rough breakdown of what there is, in all cases, oldest chromed lenses with a serial starting with a 5 (to denote 1950s) and a red 'P' (looks like an 'n') to denote coating are the best ones to seek out.

Orion-15 6/28 - a bit expensive, but excellent lens, slow but tiny.
Jupiter-3 1.5/50 - copy of the Zeiss Sonnar, a superb lens, not all that cheap but still very good value
Jupiter-8 2/50 - also a Zeiss Sonnar copy, also a superb lens, very common, very cheap, everyone should have one, I have 5 or 6
Jupiter-9 2/85 - another Zeiss Sonnar copy, again superb, a little soft and glowy wide open, closed to f4 it becomes razor sharp, bokeh is smooth and superb
Jupiter-11 4/135 - again, a Sonnar copy, sharp at all apertures, superb smooth bokeh
Jupiter-12 2.8/35 - copy of the Zeiss Biogon, a superb lens, a little soft wide open but close it one stop and it's fantastic
Industar-22 3.5/50 - a copy of the Zeiss Tessar, a superb lens, the barrel is a copy of the Leitz collapsible Elmar, I wouldn't swap my copy for an Elmar, it's razor sharp
Industar-50 3.5/50, two versions, one is collapsible and pretty much identical to the I-22,the other is a rigid 'pancake' type, optics are identical, just different barrel types
Industar-69 2.8/50 - a later Tessar type, same barrel as the J-8
Industar-61 2.8/50 - a later Tessar type, similar barrel to the I-69 and J-8, uses Lanthanum glass, I prefer this to the I-69.

There are more, but those are the common ones. I would recommend buying a J8, J12, J9 and J11, then you have three Sonnars in 50,85 and 135mm and a Biogon in 35mm. That really is all you need, you can add an ultrawide later, the Cosina/Voigtlander Skopar 25mm is a bargain considering how great it is.

Hope that helps. I really love all of my Russian RF glass, I also have several of the original Zeiss lenses they are copied from and still use the Russians alongside the Zeiss because the differenes in quality are very small indeed.


I think the i-69 is an half frame lens for chaika camera, however the characteristics you stated are the same of Industar-26 ( 50/2.8 ).


PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Bessa T - em what next? Reply with quote
maldaye wrote:
I am not sure if M39 M42 and all various M named mounts will work on this.


The Bessa T is an M mount camera. It will take any Leica or Voigtlander M lens. Older screwmount lenses (M39) work as well. You will need an M39 -> M adapter.


maldaye wrote:

I understand you need to acquire a viewfinder the same as the lens so 35 viewfinder for 35mm lens? Am I correct?


Well... http://www.cameraquest.com/VCBT.htm


PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, I-26, i got it mixed up with the I-69 which is a half frame lens for the Chaika camera.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
All M mount lenses, regardless of maker, are overpriced in the secondhand market imho. Even the Konica and Minolta ones carry very big premiums.The only ones you will find that are somewhat reasonably priced and the Cosina/Voigtlander ones and some of the less sought after 1950s Leitz like the Elmar 4/90 and Hektor 4/135.

Luckily, however, you can buy very cheap M39-M adapters an this opens up a nice range of very cheap but excellent RF lenses from the former Soviet Union. The Russkies copied the 1930s Zeiss formulas and made them in huge numbers for decades, so they are very easy to find and very cheap for what they are.

Here's a rough breakdown of what there is, in all cases, oldest chromed lenses with a serial starting with a 5 (to denote 1950s) and a red 'P' (looks like an 'n') to denote coating are the best ones to seek out.

Orion-15 6/28 - a bit expensive, but excellent lens, slow but tiny.
Jupiter-3 1.5/50 - copy of the Zeiss Sonnar, a superb lens, not all that cheap but still very good value
Jupiter-8 2/50 - also a Zeiss Sonnar copy, also a superb lens, very common, very cheap, everyone should have one, I have 5 or 6
Jupiter-9 2/85 - another Zeiss Sonnar copy, again superb, a little soft and glowy wide open, closed to f4 it becomes razor sharp, bokeh is smooth and superb
Jupiter-11 4/135 - again, a Sonnar copy, sharp at all apertures, superb smooth bokeh
Jupiter-12 2.8/35 - copy of the Zeiss Biogon, a superb lens, a little soft wide open but close it one stop and it's fantastic
Industar-22 3.5/50 - a copy of the Zeiss Tessar, a superb lens, the barrel is a copy of the Leitz collapsible Elmar, I wouldn't swap my copy for an Elmar, it's razor sharp
Industar-50 3.5/50, two versions, one is collapsible and pretty much identical to the I-22,the other is a rigid 'pancake' type, optics are identical, just different barrel types
Industar-69 2.8/50 - a later Tessar type, same barrel as the J-8
Industar-61 2.8/50 - a later Tessar type, similar barrel to the I-69 and J-8, uses Lanthanum glass, I prefer this to the I-69.

There are more, but those are the common ones. I would recommend buying a J8, J12, J9 and J11, then you have three Sonnars in 50,85 and 135mm and a Biogon in 35mm. That really is all you need, you can add an ultrawide later, the Cosina/Voigtlander Skopar 25mm is a bargain considering how great it is.

Hope that helps. I really love all of my Russian RF glass, I also have several of the original Zeiss lenses they are copied from and still use the Russians alongside the Zeiss because the differenes in quality are very small indeed.


This has been incredibly helpful! Thank you very much. What are the names of adapters I should be looking. Searching on Ebay I have a found a number of variations of adapters some having range numbers like 35-135mm and so forth.

Concerning the viewfinder:

Would something like this be useful?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Universal-Turret-Finder-Viewfinder-28-35-50-85-135mm-Zeiss-Contax-Leica-Bessa-/251286432305?pt=US_Viewfinders_Eyecups&hash=item3a81d6aa31&_uhb=1


Thanks again for your help


PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Jupiter-12 will interferes with shutter and meters on Bessa series camera so be careful if you try to do so.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54864

The Voigtlander 2.5/35 Color Skopar is another very good lens that you may able to find the LTM version around $200 with a bit of patient. It is tiny and sharp with nice bokeh.

You can use any LTM to M adapter now as your camera does have a finder. Check here for more infos if you want to use the lenses later on camera with rangefinder: http://www.cameraquest.com/adaptltm.htm .


PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
You will find many reasonably priced and excellent rangefinder lenses (M mount and M 39 screw mount, not m42) that will fit this camera, which is a RANGEFINDER vs an SLR camera. Your viewfinder magnifies the scene for focusing purposes only. You need an external finder matching the focal legnth of the lens you use for framing purposes, which attaches to the hotshoe adapter on the top of the camera. I can suggest looking on ebay for a tewe 28 or 35-135 viewfinder.

You focus throught the cameras vf by turning the focus ring of your rangefinder lens, then frame the scene through the supplemental viewfinder you attach to the hotshoe that matches the focal legnth of the lens you are using.

Again, any leica M mount or m39 (with m39>M mount adapter) will work on this camera. I suggest starting with a nikon w 35/2.5 which is tiny, incredibly sharp, and costs about $300. If you prefer 50mm, try ant canon serenar and you will be happy. Just get a matching focal legnth vf and youre all set.
Tony


PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
HI and congrats on the Bessa T purchase!

If it was me, and I was on a budget, my first lens purchase for this camera would be a Leitz 35mm f/3.5 Summaron in Leica Thread Mount (LTM). The lens has a nice vintage rendering that I really like , somewhat 3D and rounded, sharp, but not bitingly so. This is what they look like:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-35mm-Summaron-3-5-Lens-LTM-Leitz-3-5cm-Summaron-3-5-/151069390583?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item232c6ff6f7

You would also need a 35mm viewfinder (could be Russian, Nikon, Leica, Argus, Kodak, Voigtlander, Zeiss etc. etc.) and an LTM to M adapter. But, together you don't need to spend more than $50 for both.

Happy shooting!

Paul


PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I got this:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/321150078696?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


I can't seem to find an auction for a viewfinder for the 50mm lens.

All I found are these:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Rollei-50mm-Viewfinder-Finder-Camera-lens-ft-Leitz-Leica-Voigtlander-Zeiss-Canon-/181164693963?pt=US_Viewfinders_Eyecups&hash=item2a2e41d9cb&_uhb=1


or this

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/FREEPOST-UK-Europe-Cased-Soviet-Multi-Viewfinder-28-35-50-85-135mm-/321154396026?pt=UK_Photography_VintagePhotography_VintagePhotoAccessories&hash=item4ac64b2f7a&_uhb=1

Any advice?


PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here are a few more for you You are on the right track. Personally, I have never been too thrilled with the Imarect-type multi finders, but that is just me.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Canon-Universal-Viewfinder-2A13-LA31101-K-1-55-Made-In-Japan-/141008486651?pt=US_Viewfinders_Eyecups&hash=item20d4c2c0fb

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEICA-LEITZ-SBOOI-5CM-FINDER-LEICA-LEITZ-12015-5CM-50MM-BRIGHT-LINE-VIEWFINDER-/251296720697?pt=US_Vintage_Cameras&hash=item3a8273a739
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HB-UNIVERSAL-VIEWFINDER-35mm-50mm-85mm-90mm-135mm-/161046711024?pt=US_Viewfinders_Eyecups&hash=item257f21caf0
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SILVER-CHROME-Leica-Leitz-5cm-50mm-viewfinder-50mm-viewer-Germany-/321151860044?pt=US_Viewfinders_Eyecups&hash=item4ac6247d4c
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-Leica-Silver-Chrome-5cm-50mm-Viewer-Brightline-Viewfinder-Germany-/130939917378?pt=US_Viewfinders_Eyecups&hash=item1e7ca09442

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-Imarect-VIOOH-Universal-Finder-for-3-5cm-5cm-8-5cm-9cm-135mm-Lens/290937483053?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D261%26meid%3D8826223032663057770%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D1088%26rk%3D3%26sd%3D130939917378%26
http://www.ebay.com/itm/R0336-LEICA-VIOOH-IMARECT-UNIVERSAL-FINDER-3-5-5-8-5-9-13-5-CM/190864456373?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D261%26meid%3D8826223032663057770%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D1088%26rk%3D2%26sd%3D130939917378%26


PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here are a few of the viewfinders I use from time to time. They come in a variety of focal lengths, some have bright framing lines inside, some use metal masks to mark off field of view, others use variable optics, some have parallax correction, etc Look for one that isn't cloudy and that has a sturdy foot. Also take into account eye relief distance - especially if you wear eyeglasses!

Paul

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