Back to DSLR: Input please!

Karhallarn · Joined: 26 May 2009 Posts: 577

Hi guys!

I have been increasingly disappointed with my Samsung System in the last 1-1 1/2 years. Now, I was able to try the NX1 and it finally nailed the coffin and got me thinking about going back to DSLR again.
My problems with the NX System: The NX300M is to small after all, the NX1 is as big as a DSLR anyway, the viewfinders on the Samsungs are to small for me to see the whole image with my glasses, the focus is still jaggy, the peaking doesn't work properly, except for the NX1 Samsung is leaving their other cameras behind firmware wise.

I looked through the D300 of a friend and it blew my mind, how nice, big, bright and clear the optical viewfinder is. I totally forgot about that. Now I have an E-3 for rent and the viewfinder is as nice basically as the D300, the construction can't be faulted (Samsungs felt cheaper with every new generation) and the handling is gorgeous.
My problems with the E-3: ISO 800-1000 is max and even though I'm not big into High ISO thats really bad when your used to setting the auto ISO to max 2000 when out and about.

What would I like to have: great viewfinder, good build, weatherseeling would be really nice (Hamburg is a wet city...), easy use of manual glas.

I've used Nikon D1/1x, D200, Samsung GX20, EOS 40D, Olympus e-600 in the past. If I would need to choose a preferred camera through that history, it would be a draw between the D200 and the e-600. I really like the e-600 pictures every time I looked at it. The D200 on the other hand was the definition of a pro camera: It just worked in every situation (somewhat excluding high iso...).

I would really like to have the E-3 with 12-60 and 50-200. I have always felt for Olympus E-System. BUT E-system is dead and the way up is MFT which didn't impress me with their OM-D EM5 and EM1. I used both multiple times and both didn't really felt right for me.

So, do I buy into a dead system, try to snatch a e-5 sometime in the future and hope, that in 4-5 years the companies have employed some guys with glasses and realised that their viewfinder housings and windows are too small?

I'm a strange guy, I know but I would really like to have a camera again that makes me happy when shooting, especially as my boy is now 6 months (today actually Wink

) and will begin todelling around in the near future.

Cheers,

Karhallarn!

calvin83 · Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7588 Location: Hong Kong

Pentax FF is coming. Wink

Karhallarn · Joined: 26 May 2009 Posts: 577

Yeah, and it will be expensive...

I think, I will need to look at the used market anyway as the funds go mainly towards my little son at the moment, but pentax going full frame could be a reason for K-5/5ii and FA lenses...

I will think about that.

LucisPictor · Expire: 2013-12-03

I can understand your thoughts. Although I have shot with many excellent mirrorless cams, I would not want to get rid of my DSLRs.

But if you want a decent performance at ISO 1600 or higher, you should try to get the newest possible (= affordable) model.
Rather a D300s than a D200, rather a D7000 than a D300s etc.

What we found an acceptable ISO 3200 performance six years ago, doesn't really look good any more today, after we have seen what is possible with new cams. Sad

We are pretty spoiled, really.

I guess the best "compromise" would be a Nikon D7100 at the moment - if you can find it for a good price (= up to €600,- for the body).

Now that the D7200 is out, the prices of the D7100 might drop a little more.

tb_a · Expire: 2019-08-28

I can certainly understand you. I don't like EVF cameras as well. There is nothing better than a good and bright OVF of a real SLR camera.
That's the reason why I've invested in a very expensive "Katz Eye" split prism focusing screens for my Pentax DSLR and also a better one for my Sony A850 FF DSLR. I am now even thinking of adding a Leitz Visoflex optical viewer to my Ricoh GXR-M.
To invest in a new DSLR system is a rather difficult decision as it depends on your personal preferences for the lenses and which type of lenses you want to use at the end of the day.
If you just want to use the original AF lenses and maybe some cheaper 3rd party AF lenses it is relatively unimportant for which system you will finally go.
If you are planning to use also some old MF lenses, then there are other criterias to observe. Here is Nikon worst followed by Sony and obviously Canon is best because of the shortest register distance. Also Pentax would be a very good option as it takes all M42 and a rather huge selection of PK lenses without any troubles.
So for me the lens criteria would be number one. The high ISO capability is of less importance for me or the minor other differences. However, you may have other priorities.

Karhallarn · Joined: 26 May 2009 Posts: 577

Hi.

I think, its time for an update. First: I've made the decision to really sell my Samsung Gear. Second: I've found a used D700 with 85000 auctions for 699€ and a D7100 for 739€.

I wish to stay with Nikon as my last camera changes in DSLR days happened from D200 to 40D to Oly E600 to Samsung NX11 because of the possibility of manual focus lenses of different brands. What I learned from that: Nikon has a lot of good Ai glas that doesn't need to be subsidised with M42, OM, MD and so on and the focus indicator on Nikon cameras and the possibility to program lens data is just unparalleled.

So it will be a Nikon again but which one? I could also get a D300 for 369€.

I've never had full frame and kind of always longed for it but is a D700 with half its life cycle auctions a reasonable buy today?

What do you think?

tb_a · Expire: 2019-08-28

wayno · Joined: 08 Jun 2015 Posts: 52 Location: SE Indiana, USA

The Nikon d700 is a pro-build quality camera. I owned one for a while and was impressed the the solid feel and performance. If you are going to buy used, it would probably benefit you to purchase the most solid camera available. Another advantage of the D700 is the fact that it was/is an enormously popular camera. Repair and service for the model will likely be available for some time to come.

Being a full frame camera, there will continue to be a good market for the model. it is likely, if you buy at a reasonable price today, it will retain a good portion of its value for several years to come, i.e. the largest percentage of devaluation has likely already occurred.

Today I own a D750. If I could go back in time, I would gladly stick with the D700: in the final analysis, I do not see that the D750 allows an amateur- such as myself- the capacity to create markedly better images than the D700 did; furthermore, I can feel the lower quality of build of the D750.

Having said the above, I also own a Pentax K5IIs and a K3. I purchased the K5IIs when Pentax recently made them available at "fire sale" prices. It is far and away my favorite DSLR camera. I prefer it to the K3. I know you have already determined to buy Nikon, but I can't resist recommending you give the K5IIs a look......Solid build, small,shake reduction, weather sealing, quiet. Once you own one for a while, you will surprised by how much you come to value the quiet shutter.

Best regards

Wayno

Karhallarn · Joined: 26 May 2009 Posts: 577

Hi Wayno!

Thank you for the input. This helps a lot. The camera is actually sold by an employee of a professional camera store here in Hamburg, so I think it will be well priced and looked after.

Regarding your Pentax recommendation. I really like the Pentax cameras and they feel great but I'm thinking about Fullframe and using manual glas and in this situation, I think the Fullframe D700 trumps the K5. I'm much more a wide angle guy, than I was a few years ago, so the longer "reach" of APS-C vs FF is a bid thing for me! Wink

Cheers,

Karhallarn

Karhallarn · Joined: 26 May 2009 Posts: 577

Now, there is a new option in town. Classic 5D.

It is 300€ vs 650€ for the D700. Same resolution, same sensor size but D700 has better build, as far as I know. Better AF on the D700 and better screen but how about the viewfinder?

What would you do? Is the 5D still a valid option 10 years after introduction?

Cheers,

Karhallarn

wayno · Joined: 08 Jun 2015 Posts: 52 Location: SE Indiana, USA

As I understand it, the legacy, i.e. FD and FL, Canon lenses cannot be used on the modern Canon DSL cameras. I also understand there are some mirror interference issues when using some M42 lenses on Canon D5 cameras. With the Nikon, even though there is no good way to use various old MF lenses not made by Nikon, at least you can use all of the old F mount manual lenses.

Karhallarn · Joined: 26 May 2009 Posts: 577

@wayno: Yes, so far that's all known to me.

How about the difference in viewfinder for manual focusing? Any Idea?

As I understand it, the original 5D hasn't got any weatherseeling but does it make a big difference in light rain showers?

I carried my D200 with 300mm f4.5 Ai over the dune on Helgoland in pouring rain and just used tissues to wipe the rain of the lens and the mount and it worked flawlessly. I know that the D200 is weather sealed but the old AI wasn't!

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

If you want a DSLR in order to have an OVF then go for the best OVF there is - a Sony a850 or a900. 24mp FF and probably the best bargain in secondhand FF cameras. They can be had or as little as 500eu. Mine was 540 in virtually unused condition, only 11K actuations.

Karhallarn · Joined: 26 May 2009 Posts: 577

I had the A850 to try and liked it but I couldn't use my old Nikkor on the Sony and it is generally not the best to use old lenses except M42! I want my Nikons... Wink

Additionally, I haven't found a A850/900 below 800€ min!

Cheers,

Karhallarn

hoanpham · Expire: 2015-01-18

I have both 5D and 5Dm2.

5D is still good, and I still going out with it. Some how I like the sound of 5D classic better than the sound of 5Dm2 (zsz zsz vs clunk clunk). My 5D was sent to Canon to service (free) due to mirror lose issue: Re-glue and recalibrate the mirror/view finder (shim) for manual lenses. An 32G CF card seems to last forever with this body Smile

Both have installed S-type focus screen (canon original, 30usd each), a must-have if you are using manual lenses. f1.2 is no problem with this screen.

wayno · Joined: 08 Jun 2015 Posts: 52 Location: SE Indiana, USA

The standard focus screen on the D700 is not that great for manual focus. However, on mine, the electronic focus indicator did work well in manual focus; but without the electronic indicator, focus accuracy- based entirely on screen image- was difficult for me. I do not think Nikon gives much consideration to manual focus capability when they design new cameras. Auto focus is spectacular. It seems to me that Nikon takes great pride in superior auto focus and figure that most purchasers are attracted to their product for that reason.

There are replacement focusing screens available for D700 from Focusingscreens.com. I purchased a screen from them and installed it in my K5iis. It works well, and was not difficult to install in the camera. I have never replaced a Nikon focusing screen, so cannot speak to the associated difficulty.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

I can sympathize with your budgetary constraints. I have to live with rather sharp ones as well. But they don't stop me from dreaming. Cool

I find that I'm of split mind about future purchases when it comes to digital. I'm really sold on the concept of mirrorless cameras, mostly because I want to be able to use any of my manual focus lenses with one. And in this respect, Sony is still the clear leader. The new a7rII is probably the best mirrorless there is. With a rather steep price tag to match, unfortunately. But I also like the quality of a for-real optical viewfinder, which means a DSLR. And I gotta say that the new Canon 5DSR is an incredible piece of gear. But again, it comes at a steep price. I can't come close to affording either of these marvels right now, but perhaps some day I can.

One thing I'm sure of -- no matter how advanced these two cameras are, they will be eclipsed by even more advanced designs. And when this occurs, the prices of these two cameras will drop. Perhaps by a large amount, if past performance is any example. Yet, even though they may be obsolesced by more advanced designs, that doesn't preclude them from doing what they already do -- and do so well. So I look at these two cameras as future used market cameras. And once they're maybe a couple of generations past state of the art, I can afford them. And I'll enjoy them plenty, without feeling much of an urge for anything more advanced -- or so I tell myself. Cool

Actually I have something to base this on -- my most recent digital purchase. I bought a very clean, used NEX 7 with kit lens about six months ago. Even though the NEX 7 is somewhat long in the tooth now, I find it to be an extremely capable camera, a camera I can be content with using for years to come. Hey, I managed to put up with a 10.1mp EOS XS (1000D) for six years, and if I can do that, I reckon I can put up with a NEX 7 for a similar amount of time. But being a genuine graybeard nowadays, and not getting any younger, I hope I won't have to wait so long before I buy my next advanced digital.

Fortunately for me, my youngest child is now 24 yo, so I don't have this same pressing need or set of requirements that you're facing. But your kid's gonna get older too and require less demands on you -- or at least different ones -- which may ease economic pressures somewhat. So I guess what I'm saying is, if I were in your position, I'd buy a camera I could afford that does a minimum of what I want/need, and just be satisfied with it until I can afford something better. I'm not very familiar with Nikon's digital offerings, but the D700 sounds like a very capable camera. And if you're leaning toward Canon, I'd hold out and get at least a 5D Mk II over the 5D for one principle reason. The 5D Mk II has Live View, whereas the 5D does not. If you'll be using MF lenses, and I'm sure you will, having Live View is a big plus. Then there's also the wide array of lenses that can be adapted for use with EOS cameras, except, sadly, Canon FL and FD. Which is mostly why I bought my NEX -- so I could at last use my Canon FL and FD lenses on a digital camera. Speaking of Sony, the regular old a7, with its 24.3mp FF sensor, is a very capable mirrorless camera -- one that competes successfully against the 5D MkII and the D700, I would think. And its prices have dropped rather precipitously, so this might be another to consider.

Karhallarn · Joined: 26 May 2009 Posts: 577

Hi!

It'd decided! I'm gonna buy the D700. I examined it today and it and the battery grip look like they have just been produced by Nikon. Very nice!

First additional lens buy to complement my Nikkor-H 85mm f1.8 will be the Nikkor Ai 35mm f2 and the Nikkor-P 180mm f2.8.

I know the 180mm and I did really like it back on my D200 all those years but what about the 35mm f2? It's in pristine condition and comes from a reseller I completely trust and costs me 150€. Sound great, doesn't it? Has anybody compared it the VIvitar/Samyang/Walimex 35mm f1.4?

Do you guys have an idea for a wide angle that it good for wide field Astrophotography? How about Tokina 17mm f3.5? It needs to have next to no coma!

Cheers,

Karhallarn

Karhallarn · Joined: 26 May 2009 Posts: 577

It's always the other way around...

I had a look at a Canon 5D and the grip just fits my hand perfectly and much better than the Nikon...

So I left the Nikon in the Store and am now looking into the 5D...

tromboads · Expire: 2015-10-01

ah good on ya. I'm sure you will have fun Smile

Karhallarn · Joined: 26 May 2009 Posts: 577

I got myself a queen mum and I enjoy it very much as of now but I haven't bought an adapter for my Nikkor yet due to the strike of the german postal service.

TrueLoveOne · Expire: 2013-12-24

Karhallarn · Joined: 26 May 2009 Posts: 577

I just ordered a Nikon Adapter from amazon.

How about the EOS 5D mirror issue? As far as I understand it the problem is only apparent with wide angle nikkor lenses with a protruding rear element and shouldn't be a problem with my Nikkor-P 180mm f2.8 and my Nikkor-H 85mm f1.8. Can anybody confirm this?

Cheers,

Karhallarn