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AGFA Minilab lenses?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yep that same acute sharpness I noticed.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Good call. Did you track down the accessories and/or service manual for the Agfa d-Lab series?


PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
16:9 wrote:
Good call. Did you track down the accessories and/or service manual for the Agfa d-Lab series?


No luck on the accessories unfortunately... here's a technical data brochure but there's no detailed drawing/description of the lens and it also doesn't mention the 8508/370 number. either..
https://www.manualslib.de/manual/514747/Agfa-D-Lab-3.html#product-d-lab.3

You can look for "Objektiv" in the PDF to see where it should be located in the machine. It has to be a scanner lens though, given that d.labs are meant to be digital, right? Or is it a sort of hybrid?

Here is some overview brochure, doesn't mention any details though:
https://www.footprintsequipment.com/images/brochures/Agfa/d-Labs/d-lab.3_techdat_en_pma.pdf


PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
And +1 thanking D1NO, who seems to have been the only one playing around with these lenses! Certainly it was helpful compiling the Agfa article.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
simple.joy wrote:
16:9 wrote:
Good call. Did you track down the accessories and/or service manual for the Agfa d-Lab series?


No luck on the accessories unfortunately... here's a technical data brochure but there's no detailed drawing/description of the lens and it also doesn't mention the 8508/370 number. either..
https://www.manualslib.de/manual/514747/Agfa-D-Lab-3.html#product-d-lab.3

You can look for "Objektiv" in the PDF to see where it should be located in the machine. It has to be a scanner lens though, given that d.labs are meant to be digital, right? Or is it a sort of hybrid?

Here is some overview brochure, doesn't mention any details though:
https://www.footprintsequipment.com/images/brochures/Agfa/d-Labs/d-lab.3_techdat_en_pma.pdf


The assembly was for use with a Printer Controller.
The housing is also marked 'Model 8506/109,8526/110,8508/110,8509/110'
Note the 8506 reference number again.
The casing and machining of this lens is reminiscent of the late Agfa Super-Intergons.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
They popped up on Catawiki and nobody bid on them much. Mine are 8506/121 FN1639 (marked 1,7....2,4x) and 8506/123 FN2154 & FN2155(marked 3,0...4,0x)


PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just found something that looks like a patent for the MSC lenses:
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/8d/75/26/d84669435afbb4/US5703676.pdf
Haven‘t seen that before.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Good catch - patent granted 1997, which fits the timeline nicely.


PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A few from a small walk around at minimum magnification maximum distance for my Pentax K-1

Polekeh by The lens profile, on Flickr

Hiding leaf by The lens profile, on Flickr

very backlit
Backlit heavy processing how much dust is there on my sesnor by The lens profile, on Flickr

Thistlekeh by The lens profile, on Flickr

Bikeh by The lens profile, on Flickr

All heavily edited for contrast and black levels. Center flares most of the time and Auto white balance was all over the place.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2022 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
A few from a small walk around at minimum magnification maximum distance for my Pentax K-1

All heavily edited for contrast and black levels. Center flares most of the time and Auto white balance was all over the place.


Great shots - good to see you experimenting with that lens again! I'm wondering, why you seem to have a problem with the pronounced center flare and a lack of contrast though... it doesn't show up at all in my images. Perhaps it's because I'm using a bellows? I've heard they're pretty effective at catching a lot of stray light. Here are three shots SOOC (apart from cropping):


Full Res: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52328132824_e8b03e47a4_o.jpg


Full Res: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52328082103_58aa075c6a_o.jpg


Full Res: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52328097008_7b99ea4d84_o.jpg


Of course the DOF is probably not what most people ultimately want, but sharpness is great. Do you have an estimation for focal length range?

I have the 3,0 ... 4,0 and I would say that it is around 105 mm at 4,0 but didn't get around comparing what it's at the other end of the zoom range.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think the rear flange of the m42 adapter (To m65) may be causing the flare. It is black mattish but probably still reflective. I dropped mine yesterday and something inside broke so the entire rear group fell out when I opened it just now. It will go in again. There was some kind of rod that could move the group to change magnification. The focussing ring with the flanges doesn't do anything/ I think it was used to move the lens relative to the machine, so useless on a camera.

#1 rear coatings clearly visible They seem to be mainly on the rear elements.


#2 front fixed aperture visible (I may try to remove it to make it brighter).


#3 side


#4 some pictures with just the group on camera mount no flare here.


#5


#6


PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Took the moving group apart. Just 2 elements (or maybe three if the big one is a cemented group). Aperture seems to glued in. Everything is metal.




#1 big chunks


#2 of glass


PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
Took the moving group apart. Just 2 elements (or maybe three if the big one is a cemented group). Aperture seems to glued in. Everything is metal.


Sorry to hear it fell - hope there was no significant damage. Very interesting to see the inside though.

These two pieces should consist of 3 (rear) and 2 elements (front), if the patent drawing is correct:



PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's very interesting to see it was patented. Maybe I should've assumed it was? :p


PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
eggplant wrote:
That's very interesting to see it was patented. Maybe I should've assumed it was? :p


No, I think you're right - it seems kinda unusual for a Minilab device to find such a specific patent including the whole exact construction of the final lens. Usually most manufacturers only patented a basic lens construction or mechanism, but this could suggest, that they valued the whole invention enough to include it all.

And many minilabs used either modified versions of preexisting enlarging lenses or pretty similar lenses made specifically for that purpose. So this seems like quite a lot of effort.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
simple.joy wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
Took the moving group apart. Just 2 elements (or maybe three if the big one is a cemented group). Aperture seems to glued in. Everything is metal.


Sorry to hear it fell - hope there was no significant damage. Very interesting to see the inside though.

These two pieces should consist of 3 (rear) and 2 elements (front), if the patent drawing is correct:



Thanks, my floor is still ok. The Patent is likely the 3x..4x. model. The 1.7..2.4x has a small front element and a larger rear. The big chunk is actually the rear element/group


PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2022 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:


Thanks, my floor is still ok. The Patent is likely the 3x..4x. model. The 1.7..2.4x has a small front element and a larger rear. The big chunk is actually the rear element/group




Laughing That's good, it's not a lightweight lens after all!

You're right, of course - I didn't consider the fact that they might have different constructions. I'm wondering if they're part of another patent... Do you have a guess in terms of focal length of the 1.7 ... 2.4x lens?


PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2022 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
simple.joy wrote:
D1N0 wrote:


Thanks, my floor is still ok. The Patent is likely the 3x..4x. model. The 1.7..2.4x has a small front element and a larger rear. The big chunk is actually the rear element/group




Laughing That's good, it's not a lightweight lens after all!

You're right, of course - I didn't consider the fact that they might have different constructions. I'm wondering if they're part of another patent... Do you have a guess in terms of focal length of the 1.7 ... 2.4x lens?


I think that at 2.4 it is about 150mm and at 1.7 about 200mm. Had to get my head round the fact that higher magnification is wider, since it is a projecting lens. There is some focus shift between different magnification levels. Need a little more distance at 2.4. CFD a bit over 1 meter I guess. But that is just when adapting it to K-mount. It may be able to reach infinity on a mirrorless.

These are taken at the two ends (presumably because the moving rod broke so it now moves freely when I tilt the lens, I just look where the middle flange is trough the slit)


#1 2.4x


#2 1.7x


PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:

I think that at 2.4 it is about 150mm and at 1.7 about 200mm. Had to get my head round the fact that higher magnification is wider, since it is a projecting lens. There is some focus shift between different magnification levels. Need a little more distance at 2.4. CFD a bit over 1 meter I guess. But that is just when adapting it to K-mount. It may be able to reach infinity on a mirrorless.



Thanks for the information. From a quick comparison I would say the 3.0x ... 4.0x lens is somewhere around 110 mm at 4.0x and 130 mm at 3.0x. It's easily possible to focus to infinity and quality seems fine as well. It's such a heavy lens though... I wouldn't leave it on my bellows overnight because of a real fear that something might break. Shocked


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2022 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The 3x..4x seems to have a longer flange focal distance than the 1.7x...2.4...


PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 10:22 pm    Post subject: D-Lab zoom lens Reply with quote
So I recently managed to get a zoom lens out of an Agfa D-Lab scanner unit (it wasn't an easy process for a clumsy human being like me, and what you find inside of a massive block of metal also doesn't resemble what anyone would call a 'lens' in the slightest...) and while I'm far from having figured out a viable solution for using this thing as it was intended, I just fixed it haphazardly to my camera to get an impression of the capabilities of this lens, in order to know if any further effort is even worth it.

While I enjoyed using the MSC lenses mentioned before in the thread, I have to say I'm pretty blown away by this one, despite the massive limitations it has in its current state. I don't know any details about its focal length spectrum, aperture or construction yet, but it seems to have a shorter focal length compared to the MSC varifocal lenses, I feel like it's slightly faster and it consists of two movable blocks with what I'd guess are at least 8 elements, probably more. There's no inscription on it, so I can only assume that it was made in Germany by Agfa - probably in the former Staeble factory.

Bean around the block by simple.joy, on Flickr

Too early? by simple.joy, on Flickr

No reds for the thicket? by simple.joy, on Flickr

A race to the bottom? by simple.joy, on Flickr

Down for(k) some color? by simple.joy, on Flickr


PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
These look very nice especially the beans and the fork


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:18 pm    Post subject: Re: D-Lab zoom lens Reply with quote
simple.joy wrote:


A race to the bottom? by simple.joy, on Flickr



Just wow! I looked at your image in flickr full size gallery and it keeps all the details (and only adds some new) while zooming in.

Could you show your setup, the camera with the lens on it? I am really curious of how you manage this "inappropriate" zoom for such nice shots.

By the way, many great photos in this thread. A pleasure to look at.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
simple.joy wrote:


Full Res: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52328097008_7b99ea4d84_o.jpg


This one is an especially refined and rich in form, both naturally looking and semiotically speaking. Congrats!


PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: D-Lab zoom lens Reply with quote
alex ph wrote:


Just wow! I looked at your image in flickr full size gallery and it keeps all the details (and only adds some new) while zooming in.

Could you show your setup, the camera with the lens on it? I am really curious of how you manage this "inappropriate" zoom for such nice shots.

By the way, many great photos in this thread. A pleasure to look at.


Thank you very much - glad you like it! There's not much to see with my setup, I'm afraid... particularly because I had to tape all around the lens in order to get it on one of my adapters. I've tried to illustrate the setup here:



As mentioned before the lens only consists of two parts (not diaphragm, no shell), which slide on a metal rail. Movement is usually handled by a small motor, so in order to not have them slide around or fall off, I had to fix them for now. This setup was of course only meant to get an impression of the quality... however the lens is so fantastic, that I couldn't stop using it until now.

Here are two more shots where you can see that everything is covered. I guess it shows that this lens was really not intended to be used in this way. Wink

#1


#2



Here are two more shots:

Love at first sight! by simple.joy, on Flickr

Catch a cold by simple.joy, on Flickr
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