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A mysterious case: Fake Zeiss Ultron 1.8 50mm
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:57 pm    Post subject: A mysterious case: Fake Zeiss Ultron 1.8 50mm Reply with quote
Dear all

I have stumpled upon a little mystery and I hope you folks can help me get some answers. The protagonist of my story is the the legendary Zeiss Ultron 1.8 50mm lens. A vintage lens like no other, providing extraordinary sharp pictures even at open aperture with a nice somewhat swirly bokeh, encased in a sturdy yet elegant corpus. The key characteristic of this lens is that is has a concave front lens which was at the time a very unsual design. But you knew that already, didn't you?

Until recently I was the proud owner of two of these wonderful lenses. Or so I believed. One with m42 mount, and another one with Icarex BM mount. I bought these separately a couple of years ago. While I enjoyed taking a few pictures with the M42 version at the beginning, they were collecting dust the last 6 years or so. I just had too little time. Given the price point of these lenses, I decided to sell the more popular and expensive M42 version, but keep the other and buy a suitable bm mount adapter to use it with my Sony A6000. Fast forward a few weeks, the M42 version is sold and gone and the parcel guy drops the adapter in my hands.

This is when I noticed that there is someting odd about my BM mount Ultron: The front element is not concave, it's convex.

Wait a second, what?

When I'd bought that lens, of course I checked it for the obvious. No fungus, no scratches, its mechanics in order. everything seemed fine. But this I missed completely, probably because I had no way to use the lens at the time. I opened google and started doing some research. Maybe the bm mount version was different? No, there was just that one design, and that means something is very wrong my lens. But what? There are only two explanations I can think of:

1. The lens was serviced at some point, but the front lens was re-inserted the wrong way. I know that one lens inside the corpus has light scratches on the side, so yes, someone opened that lens in the past. But putting the front lens back the wrong way, would that even work?

2. The lens is not genuine, or rather someone deliberatly messed with that lens. Maybe that person owned a broken Ultron and "fixed it" by taking a front element from another, cheaper lens, for the purpose of selling the Ultron for more money than it would be worth? The successor to this lens, the Voigtländer Color Ultron, has almost the same design, but a convex front element.

In both cases I`d be wondering though if the lens could actually produce useful images, at all.

In a strange way, this turn of events incited my curiosity. I took my camera and went out to shoot some pictures. I wanted answers. Well, what can I say? The bokeh is very creamy and pleasing, no doubts about that. But the lens is not really sharp and it produces a lot of color fringing around edges, something I did not experience with the M42 Ultron. In particular pictures at infinity do not look convincing. But maybe you take a look for yourself.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/194710812@N03/albums/72177720295623152/with/51790290090/


What do you think, what is going on here? Any insights or ideas? I toyed with the idea of opening the lens to check myself, but I have litterally no experience with that, making it some kind of last resort.

Thanks for commenting and helping to solve this little riddle Smile


PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't know if it's possible with the Ultron but flipping the front element is a fairly popular mod on many more common 50mm lenses (to gain a soft focus effect)
With luck that's all it is here (though probably accidental).


PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
DConvert wrote:
I don't know if it's possible with the Ultron but flipping the front element is a fairly popular mod on many more common 50mm lenses (to gain a soft focus effect)
With luck that's all it is here (though probably accidental).


That sounds reassuring, I had no idea this was a thing! Let`s hope it`s all there is. It would still mean I have to open the lens at some point, but I guess that`s just another little adventure


PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Keep us posted! I have a couple of copies of the Icarex mount version. One to shoot and another that is nearly mint as an "investment".


PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: A mysterious case: Fake Zeiss Ultron 1.8 50mm Reply with quote
F-Ultron wrote:



What do you think, what is going on here? Any insights or ideas? I toyed with the idea of opening the lens to check myself, but I have literally no experience with that, making it some kind of last resort.



Why don't you open the lens to see by yourself? That shouldn't be rocket science Whoo Turtle


PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hmm, have a look, these are resuts using my Zeiss ULTRON:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums/72157632970595464


PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: A mysterious case: Fake Zeiss Ultron 1.8 50mm Reply with quote
Alsatian2017 wrote:
F-Ultron wrote:



What do you think, what is going on here? Any insights or ideas? I toyed with the idea of opening the lens to check myself, but I have literally no experience with that, making it some kind of last resort.



Why don't you open the lens to see by yourself? That shouldn't be rocket science Whoo Turtle


Never done it before and I have no idea how easy or difficult it is. But I researched information about opening the Ultron on the internet, and there is little useful information.

I might give it go once I understand what to look out for when performing something like this. Dont want to mess up the lens for good.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
Hmm, have a look, these are resuts using my Zeiss ULTRON:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums/72157632970595464


Thank you for this. I looked at the pictures, the bokeh does not look too different indeed. Your pictures also look quite a bit sharper, as it should be. I might come back to your album if I may to benchmark future pictures taken with my Ultron, if I muster the courage to open it and attempt a repair.

Beautiful pictures by the way


PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Get a set of rubber bezel spinning "wrenches".

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185065199050


PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
jamaeolus wrote:
Get a set of rubber bezel spinning "wrenches".

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185065199050


Thank you! I will take a look at these and try my luck.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sounds like someone opened it up but didn't notice the concave element and installed it backwards not thinking about it.

The front element can easily be inverted/reversed without causing interference with the 2nd element.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: A mysterious case: Fake Zeiss Ultron 1.8 50mm Reply with quote
F-Ultron wrote:
Dear all

I have stumpled upon a little mystery and I hope you folks can help me get some answers. The protagonist of my story is the the legendary Zeiss Ultron 1.8 50mm lens. A vintage lens like no other, providing extraordinary sharp pictures even at open aperture with a nice somewhat swirly bokeh, encased in a sturdy yet elegant corpus. The key characteristic of this lens is that is has a concave front lens which was at the time a very unsual design. But you knew that already, didn't you?

Until recently I was the proud owner of two of these wonderful lenses. Or so I believed. One with m42 mount, and another one with Icarex BM mount. I bought these separately a couple of years ago. While I enjoyed taking a few pictures with the M42 version at the beginning, they were collecting dust the last 6 years or so. I just had too little time. Given the price point of these lenses, I decided to sell the more popular and expensive M42 version, but keep the other and buy a suitable bm mount adapter to use it with my Sony A6000. Fast forward a few weeks, the M42 version is sold and gone and the parcel guy drops the adapter in my hands.

This is when I noticed that there is someting odd about my BM mount Ultron: The front element is not concave, it's convex.

Wait a second, what?

When I'd bought that lens, of course I checked it for the obvious. No fungus, no scratches, its mechanics in order. everything seemed fine. But this I missed completely, probably because I had no way to use the lens at the time. I opened google and started doing some research. Maybe the bm mount version was different? No, there was just that one design, and that means something is very wrong my lens. But what? There are only two explanations I can think of:

1. The lens was serviced at some point, but the front lens was re-inserted the wrong way. I know that one lens inside the corpus has light scratches on the side, so yes, someone opened that lens in the past. But putting the front lens back the wrong way, would that even work?

2. The lens is not genuine, or rather someone deliberatly messed with that lens. Maybe that person owned a broken Ultron and "fixed it" by taking a front element from another, cheaper lens, for the purpose of selling the Ultron for more money than it would be worth? The successor to this lens, the Voigtländer Color Ultron, has almost the same design, but a convex front element.

In both cases I`d be wondering though if the lens could actually produce useful images, at all.

In a strange way, this turn of events incited my curiosity. I took my camera and went out to shoot some pictures. I wanted answers. Well, what can I say? The bokeh is very creamy and pleasing, no doubts about that. But the lens is not really sharp and it produces a lot of color fringing around edges, something I did not experience with the M42 Ultron. In particular pictures at infinity do not look convincing. But maybe you take a look for yourself.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/194710812@N03/albums/72177720295623152/with/51790290090/

What do you think, what is going on here? Any insights or ideas? I toyed with the idea of opening the lens to check myself, but I have litterally no experience with that, making it some kind of last resort.

Thanks for commenting and helping to solve this little riddle Smile


Remove the two screws on the side



remove the name ring



this will give you access to the chrome ring that is holding the front element in place



Using the rubber tool posted in the previous answer untighten the "chrome" ring, this can be very hard the first time but i suspect it won t be a problem for you as someone already opened the lens





you can turn the lens to remove the front element, nothing else will drop out, but it s much better to use a suction tool, even more for placing back the element



This is the only simple things on this lens, everything else is much more complicated.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
Sounds like someone opened it up but didn't notice the concave element and installed it backwards not thinking about it.

The front element can easily be inverted/reversed without causing interference with the 2nd element.


Thank you for this. I bought the tools jamaeolus recommended and was able to open the lense today and flip the front lens back to its orignal condition.

Not a good day to take pictures, but I quick test confirmed that the "Ultron swirl" is back and the images are sharper too.

there still seems to be quite a bit of color fringing, but maybe that's due to the adapter I am using. No idea.

In any case, thank you all for your input and recommendations! Have nice Sunday all, cheers.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: A mysterious case: Fake Zeiss Ultron 1.8 50mm Reply with quote
tomasg wrote:


This is the only simple things on this lens, everything else is much more complicated.


Thank you for this detailed instructions, which I only saw now! I managed to swap the lens accordingly, just as you outlined. To get to the second lens, it seems you a need a spanner tool to unscrew that particular part and which I do not own.

But I am glad I didn't have to open the rest of the lens - i read somewhere that it is a complicated lens to open. Seems fixed now, so I am happy. thanks gain!


PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Great to hear you resolved the issue, basing on the forum shared knowledge.

Could you post some images from the newly restored lens. So that the difference could be visible. Your first pics were estonishingly good for a lens with a flipped element.


PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
alex ph wrote:
Great to hear you resolved the issue, basing on the forum shared knowledge.

Could you post some images from the newly restored lens. So that the difference could be visible. Your first pics were estonishingly good for a lens with a flipped element.


Sure, will do once the weather is playing along!
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