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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10688 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Blazer0ne wrote: |
visualopsins wrote: |
Lost in Space |
Even if you were right off the bat it doesn't really matter. The point of the installation was obvious to be veiled in mystery which is what caused all the attraction. An art project. If there was a huge sign that said "boring water boiler" then public interest would have been moot. Rather photographers abound. The interesting part isn't knowing what it is, but deducting what it is not.
Btw, what lens was used to take these photos? |
Huh?! Sure it matters if I'm right off the bat but I don't think I was about this...this isn't a contest or competition! Contests and competitions promote division. IMHO this is a cooperative effort, I hope!
Actually I was responding to your mention of Tales from the Loop. The alien industrial equipment laying around in Lost in Space TV series (danger, danger Will Robinson!) was part of the story line for more than a few episodes. I remember one about a cosmic vending machine, one about a time machine, one when Dr. Smith manufactures and army of bots to take over the universe... _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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Blazer0ne
Joined: 12 Sep 2018 Posts: 836
Expire: 2024-12-07
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:00 am Post subject: |
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Blazer0ne wrote:
...
Last edited by Blazer0ne on Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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alex ph
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 1609
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:21 am Post subject: |
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alex ph wrote:
This quest is fun and pleasure thanks to your input, fellows! For me it is not solved yet, there are some facts contradicting the idea it was a boiler. As long as the thing has not officially become an art object, with a confusing explanatory note attached to it, we have some time to complete the series of ideas and doubts.
The lens I took the object with was not MF. I had only my cellular phone with me, so the introduction ows to its copromised power. |
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dickb
Joined: 04 Apr 2008 Posts: 821
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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dickb wrote:
stevemark wrote: |
alex ph wrote: |
Cheers, Paul, what a find! How have you managed to find this info?
I am reading now about the construction of chadière à ventouse.
...
Much in this description contradicts the construction we see.
...
I wonder if the guy explaining the destination of the thing to the mayor of Paris and to the whole group of officials could be wrong.
Happy New year to you too, with more optical experiences and resolved mysteries! |
You are wrong - the text visible in the image is NOT about the metal structure!
The guide, while standing in front of the structure, says (if my french is correct - otherwise please correct me):
"on fait une petite halte ici pour vous présenter un des vestiges de passer de recherche et développement qui va devenir une sculpture .. " (we're stopping here for a moment so that you can see one of the vestiges of research & development which will become a sculpture situated at the entrance of the area")
So the only information we get is that it is a "leftover from research and development". That's pretty vague, and I wouldn't bet the guide actually knows what it really is. Certainly not a chaudière à ventouse!!
S |
A quick search leads me to a document concerning the building of this Olympic site with regard to sustainable development:
http://www.cgedd.developpement-durable.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/190522_-_zac_de_la_plaine_saulnier_93_-_delibere_cle531463.pdf
Under 3.3.9 Landscape and patrimony it says:
Pour les
bâtiments d’Engie recensés dans le PLU de Saint-Denis, le dossier signale que le niveau 238 qui
leur est attribué dans le PLU n’interdit pas la démolition. Il évoque la possibilité de préserver la
façade de l’usine à gaz sur l’avenue Wilson ainsi que la « chaudière test d’installations ventouses »,
qui pourrait être relocalisée dans le parc central. Les critères qui ont déterminé ce choix ne sont
pas présentés.
So they are discussing the demolition of the buildings of the energy company Engie and the preservation of a facade of a gas plant and some boiler/test/suction installation. The latter may be relocated in the central park. It seems unlikely to me that the guide in the video was talking about anything else than the boiler and that the boiler is in fact anything other than our mystery object. |
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alex ph
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 1609
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Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:37 am Post subject: |
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alex ph wrote:
Dickb, thanks for this new piece of information! So, they seem to be pretty convinced that was a room sealed boiler. By now I've found nothing on its use in industrial context, only a dozen of well illustrated pages and manuals concerning its use in private houses. And they do not correspond at all to the mystery thing. |
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jamaeolus
Joined: 19 Mar 2014 Posts: 2943 Location: Eugene
Expire: 2015-08-20
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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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jamaeolus wrote:
I still think solar observatory. Maybe to track sunspots? There is no way you are getting enough energy through the glass pane for a boiler. _________________ photos are moments frozen in time |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10688 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Glass pane? Getting enough energy through no problem. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=solar+furnace&t=ffab&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images
The altitude azimuth adjustments may not be for celestial objects at all.
I want to attach a dish but can't see how if it was done.
From https://interestingenergyfacts.blogspot.com/2010/05/solar-collector-facts.html
_________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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alex ph
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 1609
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Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:15 am Post subject: |
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alex ph wrote:
So, Jamaeolus and Visualopsins, you both think one of the missing part was a reflective dish?
I think to find a contact in the web site of the Olympic village project and to write to them in the week-end asking why they diceded it was a boiler. Unless some new suggestions from technically assured participants come in the meantime. |
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alex ph
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 1609
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Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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alex ph wrote:
I did not give up and wrote just after our exchanges to the agency which holds the site and to an architectural office which realized a preliminary exploration of the territory. Sadly, none of them replied in the weeks passed. |
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RokkorDoctor
Joined: 27 Nov 2021 Posts: 1313 Location: Kent, UK
Expire: 2025-05-01
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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RokkorDoctor wrote:
I could well be wrong (it may be art ), but I suspect something entirely different.
Doesn't look old enough to me to be 1930's, not enough riveting, too much welding, not enough decay on the exterior surfaces. The construction details & dimensions are all wrong for it to be any sort of solar energy collector, no space for a (missing) dish anywhere.
It also doesn't look to me to like something that projects celestial light/information onto a screen , but rather like a detector that is either looking at that window, or targeting the window.
If it is difficult to find info on something (esp. if the authorities don't answer to queries), it is usually because of political / defence / security sensitivity.
My guess is: 1950's, something to do with France's steps on the way to becoming a nuclear power.
One possible explanation:
https://nuclearweaponarchive.org/France/FranceFacility.html
and in particular:
"Centre d'Etudes de Vaujours-Moronvilliers
Located 17 km northwest of Paris at Vaujours in the Seine-Saint-Denis, this Centre was created in 1955. It performs explosive and high pressure research. It is equipped with shock tubes and high pressure light gas guns."
This may be something to do with that, or it may be a posable detector that can look at or through the "glass window" at whatever what was happening behind it.
In any case, my money would be on an experimental installation used by either France's defence research, or nuclear research. _________________ Mark
SONY A7S, A7RII + dust-sealed modded Novoflex/Fotodiox/Rayqual MD-NEX adapters
Minolta SR-1, SRT-101/303, XD7/XD11, XGM, X700
Bronica SQAi
Ricoh GX100
Minolta majority of all Rokkor SR/AR/MC/MD models made
Sigma 14mm/3.5 for SR mount
Tamron SP 60B 300mm/2.8 (Adaptall)
Samyang T-S 24mm/3.5 (Nikon mount, DIY converted to SR mount)
Schneider-Kreuznach PC-Super-Angulon 28mm/2.8 (SR mount)
Bronica PS 35/40/50/65/80/110/135/150/180/200/250mm |
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RokkorDoctor
Joined: 27 Nov 2021 Posts: 1313 Location: Kent, UK
Expire: 2025-05-01
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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RokkorDoctor wrote:
alex ph wrote: |
Cheers, Paul, what a find! How have you managed to find this info?
I am reading now about the construction of chadière à ventouse. The English translation is boiler with sealed chamber or room sealed boiler. And it's a pretty simple "suction" technology to evacuate the smoke from a heater or boiler installed inside the building. It normally requires a pipe fixed to the outer wall within another, larger pipe that sucks air from exterior to push the smoke outside. One of the key parameters of such installation, explaining why the pipe should be fixed well to the wall, is its hermetic isolation, to provide constant circulation and evacuation of the smoke.
Much in this description contradicts the construction we see. The rail which garantees vertical (and probably some horizontal) movements of the pipe and the presence of the "sensor" look unusual in this context. The same concerns some additional electric equipment installed on the side of the rail. I wonder if the guy explaining the destination of the thing to the mayor of Paris and to the whole group of officials could be wrong.
Happy New year to you too, with more optical experiences and resolved mysteries! |
dickb wrote: |
A quick search leads me to a document concerning the building of this Olympic site with regard to sustainable development:
http://www.cgedd.developpement-durable.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/190522_-_zac_de_la_plaine_saulnier_93_-_delibere_cle531463.pdf
Under 3.3.9 Landscape and patrimony it says:
Pour les
bâtiments d’Engie recensés dans le PLU de Saint-Denis, le dossier signale que le niveau 238 qui
leur est attribué dans le PLU n’interdit pas la démolition. Il évoque la possibilité de préserver la
façade de l’usine à gaz sur l’avenue Wilson ainsi que la « chaudière test d’installations ventouses »,
qui pourrait être relocalisée dans le parc central. Les critères qui ont déterminé ce choix ne sont
pas présentés.
So they are discussing the demolition of the buildings of the energy company Engie and the preservation of a facade of a gas plant and some boiler/test/suction installation. The latter may be relocated in the central park. It seems unlikely to me that the guide in the video was talking about anything else than the boiler and that the boiler is in fact anything other than our mystery object. |
These two comments actually make a lot of sense.
Having looked very carefully at that "tube", it now seems very likely that that is a rather powerful fan that can project a powerful blast of air at the target from various angles. It is likely a boiler balanced flue for testing would be mounted at the point of the window, in order to ascertain its performance under a heavy wind-load on the facade/gable of a building where it would normally be mounted, which is a critical design criterion for a balanced flue!!
So, forget my earlier speculation about a nuclear or defence test rig; most likely it is a (somewhat over-engineered?) test facility for balanced flues after all Far less exciting though
And as suggested in dickb's extract/quote, looking on Apple Maps now (more recent than Google maps), it is now shown restated in the "garden" of the Engie buildings, in the centre of the park, after it was temporarily relocated near the entrance during the building works as shown in the OP's images. _________________ Mark
SONY A7S, A7RII + dust-sealed modded Novoflex/Fotodiox/Rayqual MD-NEX adapters
Minolta SR-1, SRT-101/303, XD7/XD11, XGM, X700
Bronica SQAi
Ricoh GX100
Minolta majority of all Rokkor SR/AR/MC/MD models made
Sigma 14mm/3.5 for SR mount
Tamron SP 60B 300mm/2.8 (Adaptall)
Samyang T-S 24mm/3.5 (Nikon mount, DIY converted to SR mount)
Schneider-Kreuznach PC-Super-Angulon 28mm/2.8 (SR mount)
Bronica PS 35/40/50/65/80/110/135/150/180/200/250mm |
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alex ph
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 1609
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Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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alex ph wrote:
Ha, that's a good inspiration! I doubt the authorities wished to pass one type of secret equipment for another, a banal one. That sounds too cool, like a spy film. But some doubts of the initial destination of this machine are still there.
I passed recently by the site. The preparatory works continue to build the Olympic spot. I had a short talk with a site guard who was present there and I aked him if he new something about the device. He could not add nothing specific beside the fact that the device was carried there from another point of the construction spot. So, its spatial orientation must have nothing to do with the original placement. |
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RokkorDoctor
Joined: 27 Nov 2021 Posts: 1313 Location: Kent, UK
Expire: 2025-05-01
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Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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RokkorDoctor wrote:
Yes, definitely a large fan/blower.
This thing was meant to project a strong blast of air at the target in the middle of the round shield (possibly with water injection to simulate driving rain).
Looked on Google maps which still has it shown parked next to Bd Anatole France and took a screen grab.
Playing around with contrast a bit you can just about make out the stator-fins of the venturi flared fan inlet:
_________________ Mark
SONY A7S, A7RII + dust-sealed modded Novoflex/Fotodiox/Rayqual MD-NEX adapters
Minolta SR-1, SRT-101/303, XD7/XD11, XGM, X700
Bronica SQAi
Ricoh GX100
Minolta majority of all Rokkor SR/AR/MC/MD models made
Sigma 14mm/3.5 for SR mount
Tamron SP 60B 300mm/2.8 (Adaptall)
Samyang T-S 24mm/3.5 (Nikon mount, DIY converted to SR mount)
Schneider-Kreuznach PC-Super-Angulon 28mm/2.8 (SR mount)
Bronica PS 35/40/50/65/80/110/135/150/180/200/250mm |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3771 Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
Probably parts of the structure are missing, and what we see now is only the "backbone" of the original instrument.
Look for instance at the Hogg Horn which was used for early satellite communication with the "Echo" type ballon satellites:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Horn_Antenna-in_Holmdel%2C_New_Jersey_-_restoration1.jpg
S _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
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alex ph
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 1609
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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alex ph wrote:
You are certainly rigth. I thought about the rear part missing, but the image you link to suggests it could be also a huge front part.
When I passed there a couple more times, I tried to find someone who could tell a bit more about the device, but with no success. |
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