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5D, mirror tolerances and some lens questions
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:57 pm    Post subject: 5D, mirror tolerances and some lens questions Reply with quote
Hi,
I just bought a 5d classic(still waiting for it) so I sol some of the lenses I was going to have trouble with and got new ones.

In one post, I do not remember if was from this site or other, it was meentioned that maximum rear element tolerance was 1mm from the adapter, some cameras 1.5mm and 2mm would give problems for sure.
Are this measuraments right?

Talking with one spanish flickr member, which is fan of Yashicas ML´s, mentioned that his 28mm ML would not hit the mirror but he had to modify his 24mm ML. Is this normal? According to this site there should be no problem. Most of my adapters are from Big_Is

Also I bought a Tokina RMC 17mm quite cheap in M42 mount.
Will it work ok on a 5D?
Regards


PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The first thing I do when I want to check if a lens will work on my 5Dclassic is to have a look at the rear part of the lens with an adapter on and check if there is a part protruding. If there is a protruding part of about 1mm, chances are high that the mirror will hit it.

The I check with an "old" EOS 300 which gives another hint if a lens might work or not.

Strangely enough there seem to be "different" EOS 5D models, some that are very "touchy" and others that aren't. And of course the rugged ones with shaven mirrors. Wink


PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I also ordered a zenitar m42 16mm fisheye and then read in some post eitherthan the rearfilter is a necessary elemment or than it may hit the mirror. I am comfused as I thought that this was a safe lens to use.
I preffer not having to do mirror surgery as If I brake te mirror will not have funds to repair it. Yashica 28mm extends aroun 1mm from the back of the adapter.
If Sony could mont C/Y i would switch brand, same for pentax. I do not know why pentax builds a mid format camera and does not build a FF one. Would be a top seller


PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I bought a fantastic adapter from HappyPageHK on ebay, and it works very well with my Contax lenses. Using a cheaper adapter from another seller resulted in most of them hitting the mirror at infinity, as the adapter was too thin. The same will probably be true of M42 adapters.

BTW, my ML 28/2.8 and 35/2.8 work well on both my good and cheap adapter Smile


PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:13 am    Post subject: Tolerances, Adapters and Tokina RMC 17mm Reply with quote
I have no problems with the Tokina 17 mm, if I remember right, the last element is full inside the adapter, not 1 or 2 mm behind. Have to look up that.

The adapter quality is not the real problem. For correct infinity the last lens of the lens has to be in a (for this special lens) fixed distance to the sensor. If a adapter is to thin, one has not to focus behind infinity (better correct that lens infinity setting).

The lens has tolerances, so the clearance could be different for different models of a lens type.
But also the mirror location of the camera could be different, and the length of the mirror too - the later could have very high tolerances without problems - as long as EF lenses are used.
I have the impression that the mirror hit also depends on the tilt of the whole camera - or even temperature changes. Sometimes I have adjusted a lens that it doesn´t hit the mirror. Then I go for a walk with the camera, and the mirror hit the lens (same lens and camera).


PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks all for the answers, good to know about the tokina and also very interesting to see that there are mirror tolerances as well. I hope these lenses work well on the 5d bI have all the lenses I wanted, there are better ones but I am very happy with the collection I made
I think that my adapters are of good quality, they are from Big-Is and the yashicas are about 1.42-1.45 mm which should be right, I have a cheap M42 adapter which is 1,38-1,40mm and waiting for a big-is m42 adapter with flange, for auto lenses without switch(like ebc 35mm 2.Cool
Regards


PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Tolerances, Adapters and Tokina RMC 17mm Reply with quote
ZoneV wrote:
I have no problems with the Tokina 17 mm, if I remember right, the last element is full inside the adapter, not 1 or 2 mm behind. Have to look up that.


Agree with this, my Soligor 17/3.5 is made my Tokina and works fine on the 5D.

ZoneV wrote:
The adapter quality is not the real problem. For correct infinity the last lens of the lens has to be in a (for this special lens) fixed distance to the sensor. If a adapter is to thin, one has not to focus behind infinity (better correct that lens infinity setting).


Don't agree here, if an adapter is too thin, it's not just the glass that's the problem. My Distagon 28/2.8 and Vario-Sonnar 35-70/3.4 wouldn't mount at all with the cheap adapter, as the whole lens body is closer to the mirror, and the metal tabs hit the mirror (regardless of focus distance).

ZoneV wrote:
The lens has tolerances, so the clearance could be different for different models of a lens type.
But also the mirror location of the camera could be different, and the length of the mirror too - the later could have very high tolerances without problems - as long as EF lenses are used.
I have the impression that the mirror hit also depends on the tilt of the whole camera - or even temperature changes. Sometimes I have adjusted a lens that it doesn´t hit the mirror. Then I go for a walk with the camera, and the mirror hit the lens (same lens and camera).


Agree with this, results do seem to vary for different people, so tolerances must be an issue.


PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
With regard to the Yashica ML24, I've used the one that's on its way to you on an original 5D without any problems at all, with a Big-IS C/Y=>EOS adapter Wink


PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mal1905 wrote:
With regard to the Yashica ML24, I've used the one that's on its way to you on an original 5D without any problems at all, with a Big-IS C/Y=>EOS adapter Wink

Je, je, glad to know Wink Seeing your impresive collection now I understand why you sold the yashica; maybe you can send me one of those zeiss lenses for my birthday Wink
Regards

Last edited by seta666 on Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: Tolerances, Adapters and Tokina RMC 17mm Reply with quote
ManualFocus-G wrote:

Don't agree here, if an adapter is too thin, it's not just the glass that's the problem. My Distagon 28/2.8 and Vario-Sonnar 35-70/3.4 wouldn't mount at all with the cheap adapter, as the whole lens body is closer to the mirror, and the metal tabs hit the mirror (regardless of focus distance).


Ah, yes, you are right. I forget soemtimes, that not everyone is willing to file those problems down on every lens. Sorry, my mistake.

And I have to agree, that I do have lenses I want not to modify.


PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My (Tokina made) Vivitar 3.5/17 works great on my 5D - cheap Nikon-EOS-adapter.
As does my Zenitar 2.8/16 FE (M42) with a normal, no frills, cheap China adapter. Wink


PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Tolerances, Adapters and Tokina RMC 17mm Reply with quote
ZoneV wrote:
... But also the mirror location of the camera could be different, and the length of the mirror too - the later could have very high tolerances without problems - as long as EF lenses are used.
I have the impression that the mirror hit also depends on the tilt of the whole camera - or even temperature changes. Sometimes I have adjusted a lens that it doesn´t hit the mirror. Then I go for a walk with the camera, and the mirror hit the lens (same lens and camera).


I wonder now if factory recall 5D1 mirror fix has any effect; my 5D has updated mirror with side stiffeners.

The clearance issue with lenses that sometimes mirror hits sometimes no hit may be related to temperature, expansion & contraction of parts -- for example my 5D hits M42 S-M-C Takumar 4.5/20 when weather is warm but not when weather is cold. I have not experienced a tilt position difference. My M42 adapter is 1.45mm (measured) thick.
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