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maldaye
Joined: 19 Jun 2013
Posts: 316
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 Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:46 pm Post subject: 1960’s Kyoei W.Acall 35mm bug/feature |
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maldaye wrote:
Hi,
I bought an ebay Kyoei W.Acall 35mm in what appears to be good condition and fungus free.
However, there seems to be an odd thing happening.
The focus ring is tied to the aperture ring. If I move the aperture to f22 then the focus ring has full range.
However, if I put it to 3.5 it is locked.
The range of movement of the focus ring seems to depend on the aperture size.
Is this normal feature or do I need to get it repaired?
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kansalliskala
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 5044
Location: Southern Finland countryside
Expire: 2016-12-30
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:18 am Post subject: |
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kansalliskala wrote:
what mount?
_________________
MF: Kodak DCS SLR/c; Samsung NX10; OM-10; Canon T50
Zuiko 28/3.5, Distagon 35/2.8; Yashica ML 50/2;
Zuiko 50/1.4; S-M-C 120/2.8; Zuiko 135/3.5; 200/5;
Tamron AD1 135/2.8, Soligor 180/3.5; Tamron AD1 300/5.6
Tamron zooms: 01A, Z-210
Yashicaflex C; Київ 4 + Юпитер 8, 11; Polaroid 100; Olympus XA; Yashica T3
Museum stuff: Certo-Phot; Tele-Edixon 135; Polaris 90-190; Asahi Bellows; Ixus IIs
Projects: Agfa Isolette III (no shutter), Canon AE-1D (no sensor),
Nikon D80 (dead), The "Peace Camera"
AF: Canon, Tokina, Sigma Video: JVC GZ-MG275E |
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maldaye
Joined: 19 Jun 2013
Posts: 316
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 11061
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Not normal in my experience with other lenses.
_________________
☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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pdccameras
Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 825
Location: Putnam, CT
Expire: 2014-08-11
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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pdccameras wrote:
That does sound strange. Also, the three knurled rings indicate this lens has a preset diaphragm control. This would limit the movement of the aperture, but should not affect focus. Do the aperture rings rotate when you focus?
Best
Paul
_________________
Canon 5D Mii, Canon 40D, Canon 350D IR, Sony A7 Mii, Sony Alpha-6000, a ton of lenses: AF & MF and too many cameras to count, all formats: 110 - 4x5. |
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maldaye
Joined: 19 Jun 2013
Posts: 316
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:20 am Post subject: |
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maldaye wrote:
If the black ring on top is set to 3.5 then the silver ring below doesn't move. If you move the black ring to 22 then the silver ring moves freely. I am not sure if the black ring does anything in of itself. However, the silver ring controls the aperture itself. No other part of the lens moves. Am I missing something?
| pdccameras wrote: |
That does sound strange. Also, the three knurled rings indicate this lens has a preset diaphragm control. This would limit the movement of the aperture, but should not affect focus. Do the aperture rings rotate when you focus?
Best
Paul
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 11061
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:46 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
| maldaye wrote: |
If the black ring on top is set to 3.5 then the silver ring below doesn't move. If you move the black ring to 22 then the silver ring moves freely. I am not sure if the black ring does anything in of itself. However, the silver ring controls the aperture itself. No other part of the lens moves. Am I missing something?
| pdccameras wrote: |
That does sound strange. Also, the three knurled rings indicate this lens has a preset diaphragm control. This would limit the movement of the aperture, but should not affect focus. Do the aperture rings rotate when you focus?
Best
Paul
[pic |
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Oh! Those two rings work properly exactly as you describe. Use front ring to set taking aperture; second ring opens aperture for metering, then turns against stop set by front ring -- except in case of 3.5, of course.
The third focus ring sets the focus distance.
First ring sets aperture.
Second ring operates aperture.
Third ring sets focus distance.
Known as a preset lens https://35hunter.blog/2017/03/16/preset-aperture-lenses-how-they-work-and-why-you-need-at-least-one/
_________________
☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
Last edited by visualopsins on Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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maldaye
Joined: 19 Jun 2013
Posts: 316
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:52 am Post subject: |
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maldaye wrote:
No other ring moves. Where is the focus ring?
| visualopsins wrote: |
| maldaye wrote: |
If the black ring on top is set to 3.5 then the silver ring below doesn't move. If you move the black ring to 22 then the silver ring moves freely. I am not sure if the black ring does anything in of itself. However, the silver ring controls the aperture itself. No other part of the lens moves. Am I missing something?
| pdccameras wrote: |
That does sound strange. Also, the three knurled rings indicate this lens has a preset diaphragm control. This would limit the movement of the aperture, but should not affect focus. Do the aperture rings rotate when you focus?
Best
Paul
[pic |
|
Oh! Those two rings work properly exactly as you describe. Use front ring to set taking aperture; second ring opens aperture for metering, then turns against stop set by front ring -- except in case of 3.5, of course.
The third focus ring sets the focus distance.
First ring sets aperture.
Second ring operates aperture.
Third ring sets focus distance. |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 11061
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:55 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
| maldaye wrote: |
No other ring moves. Where is the focus ring?
| visualopsins wrote: |
| maldaye wrote: |
If the black ring on top is set to 3.5 then the silver ring below doesn't move. If you move the black ring to 22 then the silver ring moves freely. I am not sure if the black ring does anything in of itself. However, the silver ring controls the aperture itself. No other part of the lens moves. Am I missing something?
| pdccameras wrote: |
That does sound strange. Also, the three knurled rings indicate this lens has a preset diaphragm control. This would limit the movement of the aperture, but should not affect focus. Do the aperture rings rotate when you focus?
Best
Paul
[pic |
|
Oh! Those two rings work properly exactly as you describe. Use front ring to set taking aperture; second ring opens aperture for metering, then turns against stop set by front ring -- except in case of 3.5, of course.
The third focus ring sets the focus distance.
First ring sets aperture.
Second ring operates aperture.
Third ring sets focus distance. |
|
https://35hunter.blog/2017/03/16/preset-aperture-lenses-how-they-work-and-why-you-need-at-least-one/
_________________
☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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Alun Thomas
Joined: 20 Aug 2018
Posts: 662
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:33 am Post subject: |
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Alun Thomas wrote:
If the focus ring won't move it could be gummed up with grease that has set hard. It should be repairable, but you need a fair degree of confidence in your mechanical skills. |
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maldaye
Joined: 19 Jun 2013
Posts: 316
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:27 am Post subject: |
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maldaye wrote:
thanks for all the help. I got it working. The focus ring was stuck but after some *push* it started moving again and smoothly. |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 3666
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:37 am Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
Ahhhh, presets, a brief moment in time of lens design development, between fully manual aperture and semi-auto(like cocking the hammer of a pistol) apertures.
Manual
Preset
Semi-auto stop down(only a handful of lenses had this flavour of auto aperture)
Automatic stop down
Automatic Exposure stop down (the camera chooses the aperture value)
3 ring presets, the function of the rings can be in any order depending on the lens.
First ring sets the pre-set aperture value, they typically have heavy detents to prevent accidental adjustments.
Second ring operates aperture, it is typically clickless(no detent).
Third ring operates the focus helicoid.
Another flavour of preset is the dual action preset aperture ring, these look very similar to a manual aperture ring, only they have a hidden function, typically you will pull the aperture ring towards the camera and rotate it to the preset value and release it, then the aperture ring will only have the aperture values between max aperture and the preset value, the aperture ring can/may have detents at standard values.
...So if your manual aperture lens won't stop down past a value, it might be a preset.
Since exposure meters in camera wasn't a thing till auto cameras, you would typically set the aperture for the general conditions(like sunny 16 rule) so you'd set the preset to f16 and bounce back and forth between wide open and the preset value, wide open for focusing and composing (the optical viewfinder is usually too dark when stopped down) and the preset value for the exposure, a very efficient system.
I however use the 3 ring preset lens a bit differently with my mirrorless cameras, I will use the clickless ring as the only aperture control(the preset set to full range or to my absolute expected limit), I don't usually use aperture for exposure, but mainly for DOF control, and to a lesser degree to control sharpness, this provides me with infinite control over DOF and lets me see actual DOF in real time and I can optimize it for the subject rather than picking the nearest aperture indexed value(f2.8, 2, 1,8, 1.4....), I can have f2.3 if the subject required it.
_________________
A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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kansalliskala
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 5044
Location: Southern Finland countryside
Expire: 2016-12-30
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:34 am Post subject: |
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kansalliskala wrote:
| Lightshow wrote: |
Semi-auto stop down(only a handful of lenses had this flavour of auto aperture)
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What is it like, how it works and can you tell an example?
_________________
MF: Kodak DCS SLR/c; Samsung NX10; OM-10; Canon T50
Zuiko 28/3.5, Distagon 35/2.8; Yashica ML 50/2;
Zuiko 50/1.4; S-M-C 120/2.8; Zuiko 135/3.5; 200/5;
Tamron AD1 135/2.8, Soligor 180/3.5; Tamron AD1 300/5.6
Tamron zooms: 01A, Z-210
Yashicaflex C; Київ 4 + Юпитер 8, 11; Polaroid 100; Olympus XA; Yashica T3
Museum stuff: Certo-Phot; Tele-Edixon 135; Polaris 90-190; Asahi Bellows; Ixus IIs
Projects: Agfa Isolette III (no shutter), Canon AE-1D (no sensor),
Nikon D80 (dead), The "Peace Camera"
AF: Canon, Tokina, Sigma Video: JVC GZ-MG275E |
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