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15mm lens on NEX-7 body
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
graham, as you know and have said repeatedly, it is a FACT that tne zenitar does come in contax mount. what you may not know, but what i DO know from personal experience is, while it exhibited great distortion on my FF 5d, it exhibited NO distortion at all on my m4/3 ep2. for the third time, i will caution that this might be true to the same degree on apsc 1.5 crop cams.

it is a matter of continuing misfortune that this person constantly shadows me and takes issues with my posts. though ive asked numerous times without success, i continue to hope the mods will get this misguided fellow off my back.
tony

Last edited by rbelyell on Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:24 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
No need to insult me, I have been, and will continue to be, polite and civil. Please refrain from making inaccurate claims about me, I have not continually done anything to you, if you insist on saying such things in public, I insist on rebuffing them, which is only fair.

That being said, there is absolutely no way the Zenitar had no distortion, regardless of the camera it was used on.

To continue to claim this is wrong as you might mislead someone.

Here is the Zenitar in a gallery on this site:

http://www.mflenses.com/gallery/v/russian_lens/mc-zenitar_f2_8_16mm_fisheye/

The distortion will be less apparent on a M4/3 sensor but it is still there, impossible not to be.

Last edited by iangreenhalgh1 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:32 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
to refute anothers personal experience when one obviously has not used the combination of equipment in question, renders that refutation ignorant, asinine and wholly without merit. that is my final word on this thread.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Again, you just insult me.

Why is it so hard to admit when you're wrong, the Zenitar is a fisheye with distortion, that distortion will be less apparent on a M4/3 sensor but it is still there, those are simple facts that experience cannot refute.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have tried Zenitar 16mm 3x. in M42, PK, and EF mount. in my experienxe, the EF one is best. I used it in Canon APSC and Sony NEX5.
yes its fisheye and have distortion. in NEX, I used on video, and NEX automatically cropped so that I didnt see distortion like still image do. In this case, I can understand why Tony said that he see no distortion in m4/3.
I dont mind of it being fisheye, in term of sharpness the quality of zenitar is better than tokina 17 (I had it too, and compared both).

For 15mm, I can only recommend Voigtlander Heliar 15/4,5 I have it in LTM mount . sharp wide open. but stopped down you will get color shift. I heard they made it in Leica M which back part of lens isn't protude like LTM one, So I guess it has less color shift, or even hasn't.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting you found it sharper than the Tokina 17, the thing that has always put me off buying a Zenitar is the large number of crappy copies there are, just look at Ken Rockwell's review, his copy was really crap. I'd take one if it was from a trusted person who had actually shot it and proved it was a good copy.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
maybe copy variant, yes. or like my friend said. If its not sharp, then it must be re-adjust ( the ring focus).
What I dont like of Tokina is, if it stopped down, then it speed dropped too much. not good for low light situation


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I find my copy of the Tokina to be sharp enough at f3.5 on my NEX-3, so it's okay for low light, but it does get sharper stopped down. I shot a load of church interiors with it last week at 3.5, but I processed them quite heavily so no point showing them to see the native sharpness.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
IAZA wrote:
For 15mm, I can only recommend Voigtlander Heliar 15/4,5 I have it in LTM mount . sharp wide open. but stopped down you will get color shift. I heard they made it in Leica M which back part of lens isn't protude like LTM one, So I guess it has less color shift, or even hasn't.

I have the M mount version, and it does have color shift on the NEX-7, but it does clean up in cornerfix.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Suat is right about the heliar 15mm

i've shot with it on the nex7 and it's a pretty decent combination

2 issues in my world:

- the lens is f4.5
- corner colors

i'll look for some samples and post if you're interested?


PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, the Zenitar is a fisheye and of course it shows a massive distortion just like any fisheye does.

BUT, it is not a circular fisheye so the distortion is pretty easy to remove in post-processing if you shoot digitally.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
Yes, the Zenitar is a fisheye and of course it shows a massive distortion just like any fisheye does.

BUT, it is not a circular fisheye so the distortion is pretty easy to remove in post-processing if you shoot digitally.


Agreed on both points. PTLens is pretty good at removing distortion.

M4/3 doesn't reduce distortion, it just makes it less apparent due to the crop factor, amazes and dismays me some people would insist otherwise.

Here's the APS-C distortion test I posted earlier with the M4/3 frame imposed, as you can see, the distortion becomes less visible when cropped down to the M4/3 frame, but it's still there, no question:



And if you superimpose the APS and M4/3 frame sizes onto the FF shot I posted earlier, you see the same thing, the distortion is still obvious on the APS frame but less so on the smaller M4/3 frame.



I guess this just shows how much M4/3 sucks for old FF ultrawides, the Zenitar has a 32mm equivalency on M4/3, not really very wide.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's maybe easier to see if you crop that FF shot to APS and M4/3 frames:

FF original, looks pretty fishy:



APS 1.6x crop factor, still looks wide and the distortion is obvious, particularly in the corners:



M4/3 2x crop factor, doesn't look very wide at all and the distortion is less obvious, but no doubt it is still there and it's still visible:



Main thing I take from this is that M4/3 is not the right platform for wide angle shooting and APS isn't either really but is still much better than M4/3 if you want a wide perspective.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
M4/3 has plenty of its own wide-angle lenses, including good and cheap 7.5mm Samyang fisheye. Using legacy wides on m4/3 is not the way to go, that's for sure.
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