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What happened to Komura?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:00 pm    Post subject: What happened to Komura? Reply with quote
I am interested to know what happened to Komura lenses as the company matured.
Its early lenses are very much sought after and it enjoys an excellent reputation for its primes and some of its early zoom lenses.
Its later zooms, however seem to be not sought after as much - if at all.
Was there a loss in quality, were the designs only mediocre, or did the company itself fall on hard times........
Some other reason .............
OH


PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Seems it went bankrupt in 1980-81.
Other lens makers were going under around then, in the early 1980's.
There had been a huge boom in consumer SLR's and many players had jumped in ny the end of the 1970's.
There was a great shakeout and some old firms as well as many of the new ones got out of that business.
Why ? Well, its marketing was always pretty bad and there was intense competition at the time.
Bigger names were going bust or bailing out.

Sun got bought out and stopped making SLR lenses.
Nittoh (Komine) also, going back to grinding lenses.
Kino (Kiron) got out of the SLR lens business and now is someones subsidiary making industrial products.
etc.

The lead Komura designer Mr. Abe had a try at his own company for a while, making the (various brands) Avenon or Kobalux Leica lenses.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you Luis.
I am interested in why the later Komura zooms are so poorly thought of, and sell for so little in the marketplace.
OH


PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
luisalegria wrote:
Seems it went bankrupt in 1980-81.
Other lens makers were going under around then, in the early 1980's.
There had been a huge boom in consumer SLR's and many players had jumped in ny the end of the 1970's.
There was a great shakeout and some old firms as well as many of the new ones got out of that business.
Why ? Well, its marketing was always pretty bad and there was intense competition at the time.
Bigger names were going bust or bailing out.

Sun got bought out and stopped making SLR lenses.
Nittoh (Komine) also, going back to grinding lenses.
Kino (Kiron) got out of the SLR lens business and now is someones subsidiary making industrial products.
etc.

The lead Komura designer Mr. Abe had a try at his own company for a while, making the (various brands) Avenon or Kobalux Leica lenses.


The komura problem were:
1- The lenses NEVER NEVER went modern : NO 17mm , NO 28/85 , no 24/48 , no 21/35 , no 70/210 3.5, no 100/300... or similar as you could find at soligor (tokina/sun made) , vivitar (tokina/komine/kiron made) or Makinon's , tamron's, tokina's own lenses.....
2- The zooms lenses were big, fat with no interesting features (limited range , no close macro ..)
The primes were nothing special (no 28/2 or 135/2 , no macro ...)
3- The quality DID not justify the size, the price or the low range of features


PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Komura actually did have a 2/135 as well as a f/2.3, and I think a f/2.5 - along with slower versions. Those earlier lenses were very well built, had wonderful multi-bladed diaphragms and good IQ. The sharpness varied, but those early lenses were plenty sharp even at wide open, but the best part is the color and bokeh. For whatever reason, the faster lenses are priced very high on ebay.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
woodrim wrote:
Komura actually did have a 2/135 as well as a f/2.3, and I think a f/2.5 - along with slower versions. Those earlier lenses were very well built, had wonderful multi-bladed diaphragms and good IQ. The sharpness varied, but those early lenses were plenty sharp even at wide open, but the best part is the color and bokeh. For whatever reason, the faster lenses are priced very high on ebay.


1-Sorry i Spoke of the modern (1975/1983) komura lenses
2-
Are you sure of the komura 2/135 ? (usually the 2/135 are mainly tokina's lenses sold under tokina name or soligor c/d name)
Are you sure of the komura 2.3/135 ? (usually the 2.3/135 are mainly Makina's lenses sold under makinon or hanimex name)

pbfacts


PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
luisalegria wrote:
Seems it went bankrupt in 1980-81.
Other lens makers were going under around then, in the early 1980's.
There had been a huge boom in consumer SLR's and many players had jumped in ny the end of the 1970's.
There was a great shakeout and some old firms as well as many of the new ones got out of that business.
Why ? Well, its marketing was always pretty bad and there was intense competition at the time.
Bigger names were going bust or bailing out.

Sun got bought out and stopped making SLR lenses.
Nittoh (Komine) also, going back to grinding lenses.
Kino (Kiron) got out of the SLR lens business and now is someones subsidiary making industrial products.
etc.

The lead Komura designer Mr. Abe had a try at his own company for a while, making the (various brands) Avenon or Kobalux Leica lenses.


Fascinating info Luis. I looked at Kobori's website recently and always love seeing what these companies transformed into. Mr. Abe is one I never heard about. Do you have any of those?


PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
PBFACTS wrote:
woodrim wrote:
Komura actually did have a 2/135 as well as a f/2.3, and I think a f/2.5 - along with slower versions. Those earlier lenses were very well built, had wonderful multi-bladed diaphragms and good IQ. The sharpness varied, but those early lenses were plenty sharp even at wide open, but the best part is the color and bokeh. For whatever reason, the faster lenses are priced very high on ebay.


1-Sorry i Spoke of the modern (1975/1983) komura lenses
2-
Are you sure of the komura 2/135 ? (usually the 2/135 are mainly tokina's lenses sold under tokina name or soligor c/d name)
Are you sure of the komura 2.3/135 ? (usually the 2.3/135 are mainly Makina's lenses sold under makinon or hanimex name)

pbfacts


Yes, a Google search will yield results. Perhaps one or both on ebay.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Are you sure of the komura 2/135 ?


Yes. Smile



Posted some bokeh samples a couple of days ago.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That is typically a very expensive lens.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks like there were never auto versions of all these large aperture lenses. May have been a missed opportunity, but I think rather they just weren't able to sell enough or the cost was too high.
Komura did almost no US magazine advertising.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
That is typically a very expensive lens


Yep, I paid too much for mine, given the condition wasn't exactly as advertised. But I do love it.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
found this in my paperwork


PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
meanwhile wrote:
Quote:
Are you sure of the komura 2/135 ?


Yes. Smile



Posted some bokeh samples a couple of days ago.


THANKS for the info but again i spoke of the modern (1975/1983) komura lenses
Your lens looks like a +-1965 lens .. Correct ?


PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
meanwhile wrote:

Posted some bokeh samples a couple of days ago.



Where? I couldn't find them.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
PBFACTS wrote:

THANKS for the info but again i spoke of the modern (1975/1983) komura lenses
Your lens looks like a +-1965 lens .. Correct ?


They obviously didn't do what was necessary to survive. I'm not very interested in the later lenses. I did purchase one by mistake and don't use it. I don't recall anyone praising the later lenses, so it was probably a combination of reasons for their demise. When they went to the auto lenses, they also dropped the beautiful multi-bladed diaphragms, as did other manufacturers.

I doubt the fast lenses are worth the amounts people ask on ebay, and it doesn't look like they sell very often. Every now and then one gets listed at auction and gets plenty of bids and ultimately a high price, but lower than the buy-it-now numbers. I suspect those are people that are buying mostly because of the perceived value, and some may show up immediately afterwards at the higher prices. This can only continue because of the rarity of those lenses. I would never expect those lenses to outperform other well respected lenses in technical terms, but I suspect they have unique character. I would like to see pictures from meanwhile's lens.

If I were to buy a 135mm of that speed, and pay those premiums, I'd probably go for the Topcor. If I had the money to spare, I'd go for both.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here's one from today. Not overly exciting, but shows the bokeh character and also how sharp it is (this is on APS-C with Lens Turbo II, rather than full frame).



100% crop


Last edited by meanwhile on Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:35 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
woodrim wrote:
PBFACTS wrote:

THANKS for the info but again i spoke of the modern (1975/1983) komura lenses
Your lens looks like a +-1965 lens .. Correct ?


They obviously didn't do what was necessary to survive. I'm not very interested in the later lenses. I did purchase one by mistake and don't use it. I don't recall anyone praising the later lenses, so it was probably a combination of reasons for their demise. When they went to the auto lenses, they also dropped the beautiful multi-bladed diaphragms, as did other manufacturers.

I doubt the fast lenses are worth the amounts people ask on ebay, and it doesn't look like they sell very often. Every now and then one gets listed at auction and gets plenty of bids and ultimately a high price, but lower than the buy-it-now numbers. I suspect those are people that are buying mostly because of the perceived value, and some may show up immediately afterwards at the higher prices. This can only continue because of the rarity of those lenses. I would never expect those lenses to outperform other well respected lenses in technical terms, but I suspect they have unique character. I would like to see pictures from meanwhile's lens.

If I were to buy a 135mm of that speed, and pay those premiums, I'd probably go for the Topcor. If I had the money to spare, I'd go for both.

I think the fast primes from Komura is not bad in in technical terms. I got a cheap 2/105 with full of fine cleaning mark on both side of the rear element and some coating worn off the edge. The lens still perform decently good at wide open, despite the fault on rear element. I will post samples later when I have chance to try it.

Last edited by calvin83 on Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:08 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The hardest thing about this lens when on the Lens Turbo is not having enough depth of field, rather than having too much. Even at f16 (more like f8 ) the depth of field is still quite narrow.

@f2



@f16



PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
THANKS for the info but again i spoke of the modern (1975/1983) komura lenses
Your lens looks like a +-1965 lens .. Correct ?


I think they started manufacturing this lens in 1968, serial numbers starting with 301. Mine starts with 325, so guessing 1969 or 1970?

(Oh, and looking at the ones on eBay at the moment, mine was bloody cheap. It does have some etching from fungus I think though around one of the front inner elements, but that doesn't seem to effect the image quality)
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